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re: Amin Elhassan on the In The NO podcast
Posted on 5/5/19 at 6:45 pm to eyeran
Posted on 5/5/19 at 6:45 pm to eyeran
Maybe he sees beyond wins and losses and bases his opinion on a guy on more than that? I know its radical, but Amin is a radical guy.
The huge disconnect, IMO, is that fans base 90% of their evaluation of the head coach on X's and O's and that MIGHT be 5% of the job.
The huge disconnect, IMO, is that fans base 90% of their evaluation of the head coach on X's and O's and that MIGHT be 5% of the job.
2
Posted on 5/6/19 at 6:59 am to Crewz
quote:
fans base 90% of their evaluation of the head coach on X's and O's and that MIGHT be 5% of the job.
Agree. All of these guys have the knowledge. You don't stick around the NBA for 3 decades without knowing your stuff.
How well they impart that knowledge, get players to focus on their strengths, and play together is where the real magic happens. Once the game starts, for all the sideline hysterics, the game is largely out of their hands.
And this, of course, says nothing about the synergy between FO and coach. There's a reason the Spurs can find scrubs and turn them into contributors- their FO and coaching staff are simpatico. They identify and bring in players who can fit the roles the team has for them.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 6:59 am to Crewz
I went to a rockets game with a supplier and was lucky enough to sit right behind the rockets bench. Like John Lucas was sitting in my lap. During timeouts Dantoni pulled out the grease board and drew up movements.
No one even paid attention Paul and Harden just barked out commands for everyone
No one even paid attention Paul and Harden just barked out commands for everyone
Posted on 5/6/19 at 7:03 am to Fun Bunch
Still no specifics to explain why he is one of the worst coaches in the league? Color me shocked.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 7:33 am to Crewz
quote:
Just like players who are really good in some situations and not good in others, coaches are the same. Which is why D'Antoni could be terrible in NY and LA, and COTY worthy in Phoenix and Houston. Very few coaches (like players) are simply universally good or bad.
What situations has Gentry been successful in?
Certainly nothing near what D’Antoni has done at 2 stops.
quote:
Get the culture right,
Can’t do that with the same loser coach making excuses after every loss.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 7:41 am to corndeaux
quote:
Still no specifics to explain why he is one of the worst coaches in the league? Color me shocked.
I didn’t check in on the thread until just now.
Specifics:13 non-playoff seasons, 3 playoff seasons as a HC.
There’s nothing else necessary.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 7:59 am to corndeaux
By the way, I never said Gentry is one of the worst coaches in the league. In fact I specifically said he’s a great coach. A great assistant coach.
Assistants can be judged by x and o’s.
HC are ultimately judged by wins and losses. Period.
Assistants can be judged by x and o’s.
HC are ultimately judged by wins and losses. Period.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:07 am to corndeaux
I think we are all smart enough to realize that some people are better at their jobs than others. Gentry has shown over a long period of time that he is not going to make a significant impact on wins and losses as a head coach. I agree with what people have said in that coaching is much more than x’s and o’s Culture is important and that is set by front office, coach, and star players. I just don’t think Gentry moves the needle.
As far as specifics to the Pels:
1. He held fast to his philosophy of fast pace despite having two all-star bigs and less than average shooting surrounding them.
2. Point Boogie was never going to win big because of the high number of turnovers and resulting inefficiency.
3. He came into this season without a clear plan of roles for Randle and Mirotic. He was unsure of who the better fit in the closing 5 would be and there was no clear objective. This has also carried into his rotations as he never seems to be quite sure of who fits as his top 9.
4. He was unable to come up with a plan to tread water when Elfrid went down with the hand injury. In fact, I would argue that this made Mirotic and Randle not having defined roles an even larger deal.
5. He has not been able to get guys to buy into a culture and change the way they have previously played. For example, Boogie continued to take a large number of risks and turn the ball over while loafing back on defense. Randle is still a guy who has yet to buy into team defense and rebounding. AD has somehow become less active and engaged defensively.
6. The Phoenix game at the end of this season was the single most mismanaged game from a coaching perspective that I may have ever seen in the NBA. That was a comedy of errors that should never happen at this level.
As far as specifics to the Pels:
1. He held fast to his philosophy of fast pace despite having two all-star bigs and less than average shooting surrounding them.
2. Point Boogie was never going to win big because of the high number of turnovers and resulting inefficiency.
3. He came into this season without a clear plan of roles for Randle and Mirotic. He was unsure of who the better fit in the closing 5 would be and there was no clear objective. This has also carried into his rotations as he never seems to be quite sure of who fits as his top 9.
4. He was unable to come up with a plan to tread water when Elfrid went down with the hand injury. In fact, I would argue that this made Mirotic and Randle not having defined roles an even larger deal.
5. He has not been able to get guys to buy into a culture and change the way they have previously played. For example, Boogie continued to take a large number of risks and turn the ball over while loafing back on defense. Randle is still a guy who has yet to buy into team defense and rebounding. AD has somehow become less active and engaged defensively.
6. The Phoenix game at the end of this season was the single most mismanaged game from a coaching perspective that I may have ever seen in the NBA. That was a comedy of errors that should never happen at this level.
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 8:18 am
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:17 am to Fun Bunch
So.... Spoelstra used to be an excellent coach but he lost his skills and is now just below average? He forgot all the things he used to know?
Frank Vogel was a genius at one point and then got bad? D'Antoni was great, then bad, then good again for a little while when Lin came aboard, then bad again, then great again?
This is just such a simplistic way to look at coaching evaluation. I am shocked you keep defending it, but I respect your resilience.
Frank Vogel was a genius at one point and then got bad? D'Antoni was great, then bad, then good again for a little while when Lin came aboard, then bad again, then great again?
This is just such a simplistic way to look at coaching evaluation. I am shocked you keep defending it, but I respect your resilience.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:22 am to ThePistol
Agree that Gentry doesn't move the needle. I think 4 coaches in the world (maybe less) do.
So, fire Gentry. Cool. Who in your opinion is guaranteed to move the needle that the Pels can go out and get right now?
Very easy to say, "Fire the coach!" Much harder to let us know who you can go get to move the needle and make a real difference.
So, fire Gentry. Cool. Who in your opinion is guaranteed to move the needle that the Pels can go out and get right now?
Very easy to say, "Fire the coach!" Much harder to let us know who you can go get to move the needle and make a real difference.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:25 am to Crewz
Spoelstra won NBA championships and has been in the playoffs 8 of his 11 seasons.
The comparison is not apt.
I appreciate context and nuance in a discussion. Sometimes it is really necessary to see the forest through the trees.
And sometimes a guy has made the playoffs 3 times in 16 NBA seasons as a HC and nuance and context really aren’t necessary.
The comparison is not apt.
I appreciate context and nuance in a discussion. Sometimes it is really necessary to see the forest through the trees.
And sometimes a guy has made the playoffs 3 times in 16 NBA seasons as a HC and nuance and context really aren’t necessary.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:32 am to Fun Bunch
So, I will flip it.
Explain how he overachieved so much in 2010? That team was seen as a 6-10 seed going into the season, and were possibly a magical Ron Artest play from going to the Finals.
Did he get lucky that year? Did he get out of the way and the players and assistants do all the heavy lifting.
And again, with the Spoelstra example - you can't say its about wins and losses but then lump a season into the whole. Explain to me why he finishes below .500 some years and wins titles other years. If coaches are defined by "wins and losses", then the definition of Spoelstra in 2014 would be that he is fantastic at this coaching thing and bad at it in 2019. People say the same for Quarterbacks, as if Brees was awesome then was bad (couple 6-10 seasons), then magically got better again.
Thats just such a stupid metric to measure people in TEAM sports by.
Explain how he overachieved so much in 2010? That team was seen as a 6-10 seed going into the season, and were possibly a magical Ron Artest play from going to the Finals.
Did he get lucky that year? Did he get out of the way and the players and assistants do all the heavy lifting.
And again, with the Spoelstra example - you can't say its about wins and losses but then lump a season into the whole. Explain to me why he finishes below .500 some years and wins titles other years. If coaches are defined by "wins and losses", then the definition of Spoelstra in 2014 would be that he is fantastic at this coaching thing and bad at it in 2019. People say the same for Quarterbacks, as if Brees was awesome then was bad (couple 6-10 seasons), then magically got better again.
Thats just such a stupid metric to measure people in TEAM sports by.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:38 am to Crewz
I’m okay with Gentry staying in for this season because of what you have brought up. Him and Griffin seem to be on the same page. But, I do think it is part of Griffin’s job to identify a needle mover for head coach. The three guys viewed as the top GMs in the league have done this.
Meyers had Jackson and they seemed to be improving. He wasn’t satisfied and identified Kerr to come in and unlock that roster and bring them to new levels. Ainge had a terrible roster with no real prospects until he went out and identified Stevens to come in and together they have built the current Boston team and culture. Houston was treading water until Morey identified D’Antoni as a guy who would be great for his superstar. I don’t think any of these coaches were considered great when they were hired as two were first time NBA head coaches and the third was a re-tread hire. I would like to see us make a play for a guy who Griffin feels is best suited to be a difference maker. Maybe that is better suited to come after he builds his roster.
Meyers had Jackson and they seemed to be improving. He wasn’t satisfied and identified Kerr to come in and unlock that roster and bring them to new levels. Ainge had a terrible roster with no real prospects until he went out and identified Stevens to come in and together they have built the current Boston team and culture. Houston was treading water until Morey identified D’Antoni as a guy who would be great for his superstar. I don’t think any of these coaches were considered great when they were hired as two were first time NBA head coaches and the third was a re-tread hire. I would like to see us make a play for a guy who Griffin feels is best suited to be a difference maker. Maybe that is better suited to come after he builds his roster.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:52 am to ThePistol
Gentry won't be the coach for numerous years. Griffin will make a hire in the future. Most GM's only get one crack and making their own hire. No need to rush, especially when he has no clue what the makeup of this roster will be and what their timeline is yet.
Griffin will know that by July and he will be looking around at evaluating and when the time is right, he will hire his guy. A guy who he thinks will move that needle, with Alvin likely moving into the front office. It will happen. No need for it to happen NOW
Griffin will know that by July and he will be looking around at evaluating and when the time is right, he will hire his guy. A guy who he thinks will move that needle, with Alvin likely moving into the front office. It will happen. No need for it to happen NOW
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 8:53 am
Posted on 5/6/19 at 9:12 am to ThePistol
I agree with the move to keep Gentry until the uncertainty clears up in other areas and there is a clear vision for the identity of the team.
That said, let’s imagine every move falling our way this year: we make the playoffs and even win a series or at least play competitively in it. The city is very hyped for the team. I will still believe it will be time to identify a new coach next summer. Gentry will be 66 and the team will need a coach to grow with them. That scenario would have a lot of polarizing opinions depending on who we could get.
That said, let’s imagine every move falling our way this year: we make the playoffs and even win a series or at least play competitively in it. The city is very hyped for the team. I will still believe it will be time to identify a new coach next summer. Gentry will be 66 and the team will need a coach to grow with them. That scenario would have a lot of polarizing opinions depending on who we could get.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 12:56 pm to Crewz
So for all you defending of Gentry, you basically agree that he needs to go and he’s not the guy?
Posted on 5/6/19 at 1:23 pm to LouBega
Yes, because my thoughts are nuanced. I am not "this guy is great' or "this guy sucks" -- that is what simpletons do.
My take is: Griffin has a ton of things to do this off-season and doesn't have a direction or infrastructure in place yet so why the heck would he go get a coach now.
Figure out the AD trade (or non trade/extension) and know your direction. Keep assembling your office,.scouting, and analytic infrastructure, THEN go find the perfect coach.
See how that's much smarter and more thought out than -this guy stinks, fire him!! And then no follow up
My take is: Griffin has a ton of things to do this off-season and doesn't have a direction or infrastructure in place yet so why the heck would he go get a coach now.
Figure out the AD trade (or non trade/extension) and know your direction. Keep assembling your office,.scouting, and analytic infrastructure, THEN go find the perfect coach.
See how that's much smarter and more thought out than -this guy stinks, fire him!! And then no follow up
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 5/6/19 at 1:54 pm to corndeaux
quote:Would specifics actually matter to you or anyone else on either side? Everyone's made their minds up.
Still no specifics to explain why he is one of the worst coaches in the league? Color me shocked.
I think he brings a positive attitude and an insistence on pushing pace to the table. I think Finch came in and immediately had more actual impact on possession-to-possession offense than Gentry ever had. The defense is, for better or worse, Erman's.
We could go on and on with specifics...but again, does it matter?
We'll be back here again next year with more excuses for Gentry after another disappointing season where he gets credit for "getting guys to play hard" and publicly kisses arse to keep a job.
"Gayle went to our playoff game AND the Kentucky Derby. Please don't fire me...i love you!!!"
Do what you gotta do Uncle Al.
Posted on 5/6/19 at 2:07 pm to burdman
quote:
Thank you, thank you.
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