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A Lesson in Value
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:26 am
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:26 am
2
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:29 am to Tigerbiscuits
If Holiday had gone to another team he'd have made $18-$20 million like Teague and Hill got. Overpaying one of your players by $5-$7 million is not that damaging...unless you've also got Asik/Ajinca/Hill clogging up your cap.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:31 am to Tigerbiscuits
In sum: There are AT LEAST 14 teams who will have an advantage at the PG position when playing the pels. Outside of the magic, bulls, and knicks, it is a toss up.
I admit it, I was guilty. I thought it would have been difficult to find a replacement without the exception we used on Jrue. I now understand that was wrong.
I admit it, I was guilty. I thought it would have been difficult to find a replacement without the exception we used on Jrue. I now understand that was wrong.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:34 am to TigerinATL
This is about VALUE. If he would have stolen $18-$20 million from another team it would still be a terrible value for whoever took bait. I concede you know more about the CBA, and most likely basketball in general, than I do. But this is an open and shut case. Jrue Holiday is not worth the money.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:36 am to Tigerbiscuits
quote:
Outside of the magic, bulls, and knicks, it is a toss up.
Look I'm not saying we let Jrue off the hook and I'm not even saying Jrue is a top 10 PG. But come on man this is ridiculous
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:41 am to Tigerbiscuits
quote:
this is an open and shut case. Jrue Holiday is not worth the money.
I'm not saying he is, but an individual mistake is not the problem. Even the best run teams make a mistake or get leveraged by a player from time to time. But it's the worst teams that repeat those mistakes regularly. You need to look at the rest of the roster to give it context. The context is Demps has mismanaged this roster since he drafted AD. There were some external pressures on him, the team wanting to win now and AD not wanting to play center, but his record is pretty clear and the time to fire him was really when they fired Monty.
If you're trying to get people on the Fire Demps bandwagon, that thing has been full for a while now.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:41 am to Tigerbiscuits
Jrue pissed me off even more than usual last night. I've long considered him one of the lower IQ players on the team (see sig). They didn't ask him to do dick last night really. Run a couple pick and pops with AD/Boogie. That's about it. So what the frick was he doing all game? Literally all he needed to do was kick his $26m arse into gear and get after it scoring the basketball. Oh, Mike Conley made him his bitch on defense too before we get going on THAT subject.
frick off, if Jrue is going to play with this mentality all season, we are frickED. Just point blank frickED with a double dicked dildo. Someone needs to strap him to a chair, put those eye opening metal things on his face, and force him to watch a 24 hour highlight reel of him in Philly. Let him see what a passive little overpaid pussy he's become.
Yes, I'm mad. That contract is looking more Asik than even Hill right now.
frick off, if Jrue is going to play with this mentality all season, we are frickED. Just point blank frickED with a double dicked dildo. Someone needs to strap him to a chair, put those eye opening metal things on his face, and force him to watch a 24 hour highlight reel of him in Philly. Let him see what a passive little overpaid pussy he's become.
Yes, I'm mad. That contract is looking more Asik than even Hill right now.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:45 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
if Jrue is going to play with this mentality all season, we are frickED
I think Rondo will make a world of difference. I said it in another thread this offensive system is turning everyone outside of AD/DC into finishers. But they clearly need someone orchestrating. I really want to see how things look with Rondo, because if he makes things better I might change my trade target from Bledsoe to Rubio.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:50 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I really want to see how things look with Rondo, because if he makes things better I might change my trade target from Bledsoe to Rubio.
I mean as much as I clearly am not down with Jrue, I want Dell to burn that 2018 pick on a wing. Darius Miller is not going to cut it. Tony Allen is not going to cut it. If Grits isn't Instant, he's not going to cut it. We NEEEED depth at the 2/3/4. It's really, really, bad. Again I ask, what about calling up Terrence Jones who's in China?
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:52 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I'm not saying he is, but an individual mistake is not the problem. Even the best run teams make a mistake or get leveraged by a player from time to time. But it's the worst teams that repeat those mistakes regularly. You need to look at the rest of the roster to give it context. The context is Demps has mismanaged this roster since he drafted AD. There were some external pressures on him, the team wanting to win now and AD not wanting to play center, but his record is pretty clear and the time to fire him was really when they fired Monty.
If you're trying to get people on the Fire Demps bandwagon, that thing has been full for a while now.
I could not agree more. The mismanagement of the roster has been serial. The franchise (those in charge) have let AD down. I defended Jrue for a long time, and I respect him as a person and an average starting NBA point guard. I do not blame him for the pelicans woes, nor for getting his money. Just that it was another managerial fail on the shoulders of dealing Dell.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 9:56 am to DeionDeion
quote:
Look I'm not saying we let Jrue off the hook and I'm not even saying Jrue is a top 10 PG. But come on man this is ridiculous
Should we go through them?
I'll concede the pistons and hawks as well. Outside of those teams, magic, bulls, knicks, pistons and hawks I will have a debate about whether or not Jrue is a better PG.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 10:20 am to Tigerbiscuits
This is a great thread after he scores 4 points on 2/11 shooting. Are we going to have a thread about how he is a borderline top 10 pg when he goes for 20 points and 10 assists? Because he is going to have games like that too. The problem is he has to become more consistent. That is why he is a middle of the pack guy. He just hasn't proven to be consistent.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 10:26 am to ThePistol
Where did I disagree? there are 30 teams in the NBA. There are 14 starting PG's who are without a doubt better than Jrue. If you think he's better than the next 10, he's squarely in the middle. If not, he's closer to the back of second tier. Could have had a similar pg for half the price.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 10:33 am to Tigerbiscuits
I think the problem is there's a lot of chicken littling today and people acting like the season is over after 1 game. I don't feel any differently today about how the team will start than I did 2 days ago. I thought Memphis was a toss up because it was in Memphis where they are allowed to do Memphis things and this team has never handled being bullied well. But I still think AD/DC will be enough to beat the much less talented teams they have scheduled early and they should start out anywhere from 5-7 to 7-5. How they do after that once the schedule starts to toughen really depends on what kind of effect Rondo can have on stopping a return of the shite show we saw last night.
This post was edited on 10/19/17 at 4:10 pm
Posted on 10/19/17 at 11:01 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I think the problem is there's a lot of chicken littling today and people acting like the season is over after 1 game. I don't feel any differently today about how the team will start than I did 2 days ago.
+1...i may be more pessimistic on their overall chances, but this is so true. as long as Conley and Gasol are healthy, Memphis will be a solid team. those dudes know how to play and win. the Pels dont...yet.
bringing it back to the value idea, this team has been poorly run for some time. they have no players that outperform their $$ and can actually help a good team. they had Davis on perhaps the best bargain in the league for 4 years, but have tossed away picks to cash out mediocre vets.
even with giving up young player/pick, the Cousins deal is something they had to do, certainly. but if a playoff contender w/ Davis and Cousins is relying on Rajon Rondo in 2017 to be the difference, they're already way behind the eight ball.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 4:09 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
if you obtain Cousins is Holiday REALLY the PG you want getting Cousins and Davis the ball? Wouldn't it be better going after a more natural facilitator like Ricky Rubio? - Hours before THE trade
No, but thats why we signed Rondo. Holding onto a gunner like Crawford when Jrue is supposed to be the gunner now is the problem.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 4:22 pm to Tigerbiscuits
quote:
Should we go through them?
I'll concede the pistons and hawks as well. Outside of those teams, magic, bulls, knicks, pistons and hawks I will have a debate about whether or not Jrue is a better PG.
Sure why not.
-Magic, Pacers, Pistons & Hawks (you mentioned these already), Bucks, Knicks, Bulls, 76ers, Nets, Jazz, Clippers, Lakers, Mavericks, Nuggets, Timberwolves
That's 15 teams right there that don't really need any type of discussion. Around the same spot if you place him in the SG rankings.
This post was edited on 10/19/17 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 10/19/17 at 5:07 pm to DeionDeion
quote:
Sure why not.
-Magic, Pacers, Pistons & Hawks (you mentioned these already), Bucks, Knicks, Bulls, 76ers, Nets, Jazz, Clippers, Lakers, Mavericks, Nuggets, Timberwolves
That's 15 teams right there that don't really need any type of discussion. Around the same spot if you place him in the SG rankings.
In bold teams I already disclosed. Now to your list.
Bucks - Sure, if you consider delly their starting PG they're worse. But Giannis handles the ball much more.
Knicks - already conceded
Bulls - again, you did not read my list prior to posting.
76ers - I'd take Simmons over Jrue today. It's certainly a debate.
Nets - Lin is injured but the combo of Lin and DLo is >>>>Jrue. Hell, DLo is averaging Jrue numbers and he's 3 years in to the league.
Jazz - Rubio = Holiday depending on what you need.
Clippers - sure, you got me there..but for what we're asking Jrue to do..Lou Williams is much better.
Lakers - Lonzo is better than Jrue right now.
Mavs - sure ya got me there again.
Nuggets - Not as high profile but both guards playing similar ball to Jrue.
Timberwolves - Teague >>>> Jrue.
So there you have it. 15 teams. I would say 3-4 could go either way. The NBA has 30 teams. The Pels are 1 of those teams. 30-1=29-15=14! 14 Teams that without a doubt have a better starting point guard than we do. Thanks for making my point.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 5:11 pm to Tigerbiscuits
Until dell is fired, I already quit on the team.
I mean Darius Miller has a contract that's more than just the minimum. That enough should get you fired. 2/4.3m
I mean Darius Miller has a contract that's more than just the minimum. That enough should get you fired. 2/4.3m
Posted on 10/19/17 at 5:26 pm to htran90
Did Holiday ever have an offer from anybody else? I understand wanting to be the first offer. But I thought they let him get to FA to guage his value. After seeing what Hill, Teague, KCP, Reddick and Hardaway got, I can't imagine anyone offered Holiday 20+ a season. I'd love to hear an interview where Demps goes over that process..
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