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NOLA Bronco
Member since Dec 2014
1898 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
Want a cookie?


mckinley1175
Member since Dec 2012
339 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
You fish for the comment then come back with a childish remark classic.


NOLA Bronco
Member since Dec 2014
1898 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
quote:

You fish for the comment then come back with a childish remark classic.




You want one as well?

My point was about childish partisan treatment of rookie prospects, and the guy comes in making a stupid partisan comment....And you come in to stick up for it.

Truth be told the story on Hield vs Murray will be written 3-5 years from now. Its fine to take your side and support your opinion of future projection, we all have, its another to only take up the fight when the evidence is stacked to your side. Then disappear or refuse to acknowledge shifts in reality. Or in his case just offer up a throwaway partisan one liner and walk away.

This post was edited on 1/2 at 10:51 pm


Toula
Chicago Cubs Fan
504
Member since Dec 2006
35038 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
Buddy has been playing well last few weeks. I still stand that he is a "win now" draft pick, and he's delivering on that now.

Still doesn't mean he was or will be the better pick over Murray or Chriss.

If the organization and fans are fine with less than .500 ball and trying to make the 8 seed, then Buddy was the right pick.


saints5021
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Jul 2010
9736 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
frick the win now or potential debate. We have a SG who can shoot. Buddy is a legit NBA player, regardless of your team's timeframe.


tgr4ever
Georgia Southern Fan
Gwinnett, baw
Member since Jul 2011
15787 posts
 Online 

re: A good end to Buddy month
Exactly. frick all the bull shite. Buddy is an elite shooter and hes starting to show some potential on defense now.


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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
52792 posts
 Online 

re: A good end to Buddy month
quote:

If the organization and fans are fine with less than .500 ball and trying to make the 8 seed, then Buddy was the right pick.


I think this may be correct as a generalization but I don't buy it at all in this specific instance. The argument for Murray over Hield is Murray has a higher ceiling because he was better younger. If his ceiling was that much higher than Buddy's he'd have been a tier above Buddy and gotten drafted earlier.

The NBA doesn't get the draft 100% right, but when they are wrong, they usually err on the side of potential. The fact that Murray went where he did suggests that Murray fans are wrong about his ceiling being significantly better than Hield's. It's not like people thought the Pels reached on Buddy or Murray fell, Bender/Dunn/Hield/Murray/Brown was that 2nd talent tier and nobody really separated themselves.


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31
NOLA Bronco
Member since Dec 2014
1898 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
quote:

Buddy has been playing well last few weeks. I still stand that he is a "win now" draft pick, and he's delivering on that now.

Still doesn't mean he was or will be the better pick over Murray or Chriss.

If the organization and fans are fine with less than .500 ball and trying to make the 8 seed, then Buddy was the right pick.

We're going on over a month now that he is playing well.

Buddy can both be a more win-now player and the better prospect. Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas. But no need to rehash old conversations.

30 teams passed on Malcolm Brogdan and Cheick Diallo. The former is helping the Bucks win now but he also looks like when all is said and done to be a top 10 player of this draft class. This notion that age and experience means you can't still have room to grow and be one of the best of a draft class continues to be nonsense.


htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
25560 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
quote:

This notion that age and experience means you can't still have room to grow and be one of the best of a draft class continues to be nonsense.




this...
the difference is possibly 3-4 years of total playing time in their career if both have long tenured careers.

You think Portland and GS care that McCollum/Thompson are older? No.


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Toula
Chicago Cubs Fan
504
Member since Dec 2006
35038 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
I'm stoked Buddy is playing well. I'm not anti-Buddy at all.

He's getting serious run and usage and taking advantage. It's been great to watch and making the Pels a better product.

Brogdon has looked great too.

We just need to be cautious of saying Brogdon and Buddy are better than people drafted around them. They are in great situations to get minutes and put up numbers.

This is the NBA, any player is capable of putting up numbers getting 30 minutes and 10 shots.
This post was edited on 1/3 at 9:40 am


htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
25560 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
quote:

This is the NBA, any player is capable of putting up numbers getting 30 minutes and 10 shots.



except their percentages when they are actually given the time and shots are actually very good.

that's not something everyone can do: look at the Lakers. Ingram and Russell have been given a lot of time and they're not very efficient.


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ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
12284 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
quote:

Toula


It's funny cause when Murray was playing well and Buddy wasn't getting run, everyone was saying the exact opposite. Now that Murray has cooled and Buddy is getting run, he's in a better situation.

I don't know if you've watched the Pels or are just box score watching, but Buddy's points aren't the result of Jrue/Davis getting double teamed and kicking out to wide open Hield. The guy is ALWAYS moving. Even when he's standing in a particular spot on isos, he will often fake moving to see if he can get his defender to bite.

He's been good at getting to the rack and has a nice first step. He learns to finish in traffic better and watch out. Right now he has no problem getting into the second level, but he underestimates the closing speed/length of NBA bigs.

There's plenty of reason to be excited about him. I've yet to see someone cite from a skills perspective why Murray is a better player. He certainly doesn't look it at the current moment. He doesn't have off the charts measurables (smaller than Hield by a little bit). The only argument is he's younger with greater upside.


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
52792 posts
 Online 

re: A good end to Buddy month
quote:

Buddy's points aren't the result of Jrue/Davis getting double teamed and kicking out to wide open Hield. The guy is ALWAYS moving.


I think my favorite off ball play so far is where Buddy sets a screen for someone like Hill to get to the corner. If Buddy sets a good screen you have an open corner 3, and if Hill's man recovers, Buddy gets forgotten for a second because nobody stays with the screener and Hill can pass it to Buddy for an open wing 3.


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10
NOLA Bronco
Member since Dec 2014
1898 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
And my whole thing about "greater upside" has been that a person's ceiling is almost entirely reliant on a players physical characteristics. And when you look at Murray and Hield and their respective ideal positions in the NBA, they are both nearly identical
In terms of physical ceiling. With Hield possibly getting an edge because he isn't a tweeter.

Murray is a larger but slower PG or an undersized SG. Hield is an average sized SG with slightly above average athleticism. Both high IQ players.

The only rational upside argument I see with Murray is that he is younger and therefore has a longer window to meet his ceiling and if he can accelerate himself to that ceiling(no guarantee) then he conceivably has a larger window at peak output over the life of his career.

But Hield is so far already developed in areas past Murray and continues to show himself to be on a steady and strong upward trajectory.


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10
mckinley1175
Member since Dec 2012
339 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
Nah I admitted Buddy was getting better and I'm gonna look at it like this. Buddy Hield is like a 75 to 77 over all on 2k. Murray is about 82-85 that's just how I see it. Murray reminds me of Brandon Roy that's why I'm so high on him.
This post was edited on 1/3 at 2:08 pm


mckinley1175
Member since Dec 2012
339 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
Potentially those ratings not at the moment.


jprdbulldog20
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2013
9008 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
Buddy Hield was named the West's rookie of the month for December.


Toula
Chicago Cubs Fan
504
Member since Dec 2006
35038 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
quote:

Hield, 23, the sixth pick in NBA Draft 2016 presented by State Farm, led West rookies in scoring (10.6 ppg) and three-point field goal percentage (47.8) and topped all first-year players in three-pointers made (33). The 6-4 guard scored in double figures nine times in 16 games, including 12 or more points in each of the final three games of December (a 3-0 stretch for New Orleans). On Dec. 15, Hield set career highs with 21 points and five three-pointers in a 102-95 victory against the Indiana Pacers.



No other competition in the West for December.

Embiid will clean sweep the East unless he gets hurt.


htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
25560 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
Embiid is going to win rookie of the year, which is rather BS


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22
NOLA Bronco
Member since Dec 2014
1898 posts

re: A good end to Buddy month
quote:

Nah I admitted Buddy was getting better and I'm gonna look at it like this. Buddy Hield is like a 75 to 77 over all on 2k. Murray is about 82-85 that's just how I see it. Murray reminds me of Brandon Roy that's why I'm so high on him.




The only way that is true right now in their careers is if you are editing rosters to suit your fantasies.


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