re: Explain Dylan

The traditional folk song scarborough fair was a major folk hit for the two biggest folk acts of the time
Simon & Garfunkel - Scarborough Fair/Canticle
Bob Dylan - Girl From The North Country

It was common practice and known

Dylan even clarified when he had an original in a spoken prologue before Bob Dylan’s Blues on the Freewheelin Album

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Unlike most of the songs nowadays have been written uptown in Tin Pan Alley - that’s where most of the folk songs come from nowadays. This is a song - this wasn’t written up there. This was written somewhere down in the United States

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He has over 600 songs and you are obsessing on a small number of them (5%) on which he did write the lyrics.

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Nah. Of his early (60s) canon, several of his most iconic hits this is true for.

I was truly floored when I found out he did not write the melody for Blowin' in the Wind. Bernie Taupin is great and all, but no Elton, no nothing.

I'm not writing Dylan off. I'm just pointing out a major chink in his armor IMO.

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It was common practice and known

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BTW, I don't have a problem with cover tunes. I'm just not in the habit of fawning over the cover artist as if they did as much as the covered artist.

To repeat: the writing of melody is the single hardest act in music. It essentially IS music. The insistence that quality poetry must somehow figure in as more relevant or predominant has always bugged me.

I always give the same thought experiment in support of my view:

If someone gave you all the Stairway to Heaven lyrics and then tasked you with then writing the actual music - including vocal melody - would that seem easier, harder or equal to the reverse (i.e. being handed a fully recorded song and vocal melody line, but having to come up only with lyrics)?

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Traditional folk songs aren’t consider covers.

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Whatever you want to call it - he didn't write the melody. Why aren't you recognizing that simple fact? It's not CREDIT I'm concerned with - it's lack of doing the hard part.

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Dylan’s folk period is a very small percentage of his career and not considered his best work - the electric trilogy I’ve already mentioned - is widely viewed as such.

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I'm not sure what this means. Admittedly, I'm only a casual Dylan fan and not any sort of maximalist. (My favorite song is When I Paint My Masterpiece). But Blowin' in the Wind is his most famous song - and he didn't write the melody.

I'm looking at the list I posted earlier. These are the other ones that stand out to me:

"A Hard Rain's a-Gonna Fall"
"I Shall Be Free"
"The Times They Are a-Changin'"

In my mind, that's like his best songs were not original.

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The Beatles Yesterday which Paul McCartney swears came to him in a dream is actually a note for note copy of an 1895 Neapolitan aria called Piccere.

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I'd like to see the receipts on that. I know some crank claimed that a long time ago, but the evidence seems thin.

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But no credit is given there and it’s completely swept under the rug. You’re trying hard to make this into something it’s not.

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Again, I don't care about credit, per se.

My only claim was: I'm taken aback at how many "classic" Dylan tunes were, in fact, not written by him - at least not the music itself, which is what I care about.

That's it. I think you seem to be making what I am trying to say into something it's not.

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My only claim was: I'm taken aback at how many "classic" Dylan tunes were, in fact, not written by him - at least not the music itself, which is what I care about.

That's it. I think you seem to be making what I am trying to say into something it's not.

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I hate to tell you this, but almost 100% of all popular music is exactly the same as something that has been done before.
It may be disguised by changing the rhythm a bit, or changing the key, different instruments/ arrangments, things like that, but it's all been done before. No popular music is original. This goes back to the very beginning with Jimmy Rodgers and The Carter Family.
There are only 12 notes, but there are millions of songs. Do you not think that most are pretty much alike?
Take a 1-4-5 progression, change it to minor chords, or any variations, it may sound different to most people, but it's still the same ol' thing.

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He sounded decent in his early years but his voice got worse later on.

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Yes, his voice started to diminish significantly in the 80s and 90s due to drugs and smoking, but that isn't really what I am talking about here.

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In folk music, words are the most important part of a song

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Sure, for you maybe. In my world, you aren't getting my attention if the melody sucks (or doesn't exist). I can't imagine Blowin' in the Wind having even a tenth of the impact if not for how great and haunting the melody is.

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This is a cop out. You could say that about any domain of human endeavor, not just music.

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Ok then, just hold everyone else to the same standards that you are trying to hold Dylan to.
How bout ZZ Top? How bout Led Zepplin? Rolling Stones? I can go on and on. They all borrowed from music that came before and they all claim credit for the music. That's the way it is.
There's nothing wrong with it as long as you acknowledge it. Wear your influences on your sleeve like a tribute. Dylan always did.

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I don’t visit this board often but for some reason I did Sunday and found this thread, and subsequently this post. I have very limited knowledge of Dylan’s catalog so I figured what the hell and looked up Blood on the Tracks on Spotify to check out one song. I chose “idiot wind” because of the amusing title. And DAMN. Why haven’t I heard that song before? I’ve listened to the whole album since (idiot wind quite a few times) and love it.

So thanks for that.

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Blood On the Tracks is one of the greatest albums of all time (many have it top 5 or at least top 10) and Dylan wrote the whole damn thing. People who want to focus on The Time They Are a Changin' don't know the man catalogue. It really starts with The Band and Blood On the Tracks and Desire and those weren't the folk songs people are talking about in this thread.

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Then what's your gripe?
You're pissed off because Dylan did the same thing as everyone else?

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It's bizarre that we're unable to tell the difference between influences and stealing.

I mean, I'm not "pissed off" about anything. I'm simply less high on Dylan than I might be had he actually written some of my favorite songs of his.

If I found out tomorrow that The Beatles had not actually written A Day in the Life, A Hard Day's Night and I Want to Hold Your Hand, I would immediately downgrade them in my estimation. This is with full knowledge (as they were quite explicit about it, even in real time) that they were HEAVILY influenced by certain genres and acts of their era.