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re: Witcher season 2 middle ground thread. Now full book/upcoming season spoilers
Posted on 12/22/21 at 10:07 am to td01241
Posted on 12/22/21 at 10:07 am to td01241
quote:
I agree. Especially because they added a bunch of meaningless extra Witcher’s. Eskel doesn’t have any sort of role to speak of that would require him beyond this season so I just fixed their problem in two seconds. Turn a random extra into the leshan and have Eskel die at the final fight saving Geralt or someone. It’s still not good but better.
Eskel was needlessly put on the chopping block for shock value and to show us that (a) this isn't a 1:1 adaptation of the books and (b) every character is expendable.
problem is the source material they are changing is very likely better than the original content they are creating, and the character they called Eskel doesn't act like Eskel at any point he is on screen. It is a completely different personality. Also now we never get the three drunk witchers scene from TW3 if they ever wanted to go into game territory.
Also, as far as out of character moments goes, Vesemir has had a few moments that raises eyebrows: namely him being okay with the events of E2 before the fight.
This post was edited on 12/22/21 at 10:10 am
1
Posted on 12/22/21 at 10:34 am to Ross
Yeah I haven’t even touched on Vesy in this thray yet. I’ll say he’s one of the most perfect casting and character design choices outside of Geralt himself the show made. So credit to them. He never really acts like Vesy though outside of a few conversations between just himself and Geralt where he is mentoring him about fatherhood. He allows whores there when a prettty big to do is always made about hiding the path to the keep obviously since they were almost wiped out once. He has this sort of weird to describe skepticism of Ciri and Geralts decision not only to claim her but bring her there which I don’t ever remember but I could’ve forgotten. The biggest is his desire to reboot the trial of grasses and AGREEING TO TEST IT ON CIRI FIRST. Wtf show? Finally he wants to kill Ciri for reasons? Knowing she’s possessed when the real Vesy would’ve immediately been down with the plan to lift or exorcise the demon. The entire voleith Meir plot is retarded though. For a show that wants to nab up game of thrones coattails badly this season was a disaster and missed opportunity imo. It’s the most perfect opportunity for a slower political based dialogue heavy season the early GoT was known for.
They also reportedly based the Voleith Meir character off Gaunter O’Dimm from the games. If that’s truly the case a lot of people need to be fired because my god not only did they completely fail but GOD is their best and most interesting opportunity to take a fascinating antagonist and do something original with it since he has almost nothing hard cannon about him in the first place.
They also reportedly based the Voleith Meir character off Gaunter O’Dimm from the games. If that’s truly the case a lot of people need to be fired because my god not only did they completely fail but GOD is their best and most interesting opportunity to take a fascinating antagonist and do something original with it since he has almost nothing hard cannon about him in the first place.
This post was edited on 12/22/21 at 10:58 am
Posted on 12/22/21 at 11:10 am to td01241
I have no idea what y’all are even talking about but it’s making me glad I didn’t read any books and was able to just enjoy good TV 
No shade thrown either, I did the same thing with GOTs, this is just nice to not have that burden
No shade thrown either, I did the same thing with GOTs, this is just nice to not have that burden
Posted on 12/22/21 at 11:15 am to wildtigercat93
I was in the same boat for GoT as I am for The Witcher. The first 4 seasons of GoT is akin to Peter Jackson’s LOTR insofar as its almost a direct 1:1 adaptation of the books without needing to create on their part only choosing what to exclude. The Witcher never even gets remotely close to this. To be fair to the The Witcher producers and team the foundation for GoT source material in the beginning is magnitudes stronger however it’s also more complex and ran for 2 more episodes a season.
This post was edited on 12/22/21 at 11:18 am
Posted on 12/22/21 at 11:53 am to td01241
I've been trying to decide if I want to read the books or not. Guess I need to order the set. Is it the 8 books?
Posted on 12/22/21 at 12:01 pm to Aubie Spr96
Yes. The first two are more of a collection of short stories not novels and that’s what season 1 was cobbled together from. You then have 3 video games that slightly retcon the book ending but is massively worth it as they’re every bit as good as the books if not better if visual mediums is more your thing. I’d highly recommend this for anyone who enjoys the show. A lot is lost in translation and altered. Honestly if you don’t feel inclined to take in the massive undertaking that is absorbing this entire story, you could just do a full in depth play through of Witcher 3 and both DLCs. Consuming all of the content on offer at a realistic pace where you try to absorb it all and read the notes and books will give you hundreds of hours of enjoyment.
This post was edited on 12/22/21 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 12/22/21 at 12:50 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
but it’s making me glad I didn’t read any books and was able to just enjoy good TV
Yeah, I'm with you. I think not knowing or being invested in the source material with these type shows is definitely a good thing when watching them. These showrunners usually can't help themselves when it comes to their egos, and thinking they have better ideas than the source material. But if you don't know, or at least not invested in the source material, then you can just enjoy the show despite the showrunners changing stuff.
This post was edited on 12/22/21 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 12/22/21 at 12:58 pm to Bamatab
Maybe I have a fundamental misunderstanding of film making, which is possible as frick, but what is the point of obtaining the rights to a massively popular IP like the Witcher? Presumably it’s the built in audience that comes with it as well as the most of the hard work conceding story, lore, characters, world building is done for you. If they’re just going to completely try to exploit the first while pissing on the second why not make an original show?
Posted on 12/22/21 at 1:07 pm to td01241
I mean it’s been extremely successful so that’s probably why
Other properties have tanked for trying too hard to be a carbon copy of the source material because it just comes off as lazy and pandering. The fact is that these adaptations will never make the fans of the original material happy because they will want the same excitement they got from reading the books without feeling like it’s rehashed material so you’re working with an inherit bias against the property, even despite how much excitement the idea may give you
Other properties have tanked for trying too hard to be a carbon copy of the source material because it just comes off as lazy and pandering. The fact is that these adaptations will never make the fans of the original material happy because they will want the same excitement they got from reading the books without feeling like it’s rehashed material so you’re working with an inherit bias against the property, even despite how much excitement the idea may give you
Posted on 12/22/21 at 1:15 pm to td01241
quote:
Maybe I have a fundamental misunderstanding of film making, which is possible as frick, but what is the point of obtaining the rights to a massively popular IP like the Witcher? Presumably it’s the built in audience that comes with it as well as the most of the hard work conceding story, lore, characters, world building is done for you. If they’re just going to completely try to exploit the first while pissing on the second why not make an original show?
You must really underestimate the vastness of the egos in Hollywood. They have proven time and time again that they don't give a rat's arse about the fanbase of established franchises. Just look at what Kennedy did with the last Star Wars trilogy, or what Feig & Dippold did with the 2016 Ghostbusters movie. Heck, even Jackson couldn't help himself when it came to making unnecessary changes in his LOTR movies, and even created a brand new major character for the Hobbit movies for no reason other than just so Evangeline Lilly could be in them.
At least in this case (as with the LOTR), they still put out a quality show, even if they did change a lot of stuff for no reason.
This post was edited on 12/22/21 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 12/22/21 at 1:32 pm to Bamatab
I’m fully aware of Hollywood’s frickery. The Witcher is a unique case though. They’re not trying to push to “the message.” Nothing is overtly or even really subtly woke or sjw. They’re not trying to “subvert our expectations.” The end of season 2 has everyone pretty well lined up to go into the next book, Time of Contempt. Which is my personal favorite of the whole series. The issue outside of what could be described as very loosely if you’re generous, they lay none of the proper groundwork for the best parts to come. It will become an exponentially bigger issue moving forward.
Posted on 12/22/21 at 1:42 pm to td01241
quote:
The Witcher is a unique case though. They’re not trying to push to “the message.” Nothing is overtly or even really subtly woke or sjw.
Literally the only thing remotely "woke" about it is the diverse casting. There's a lot of black folks, many of whom are elves, just hanging around interspersed with the general population. This doesn't bother me because the whole "conjunction of the spheres" world building makes the idea of different kinds of humans and species all forced onto the same plane of existence seem completely natural to that world. Diverse casting isn't a problem when it works within the rules of the established universe, and it does in The Witcher.
My biggest issue with the casting is Triss, who is an absolute knock-down drag-out babe in the video games, isn't hot, naïve, or charismatic enough. When playing the video games, there was some legit indecision regarding whether I should romance Triss verses Yenn. They knocked it out of the park with the actress playing Yennifer, which makes the casting of Triss look so mediocre by comparison. It's not just the look, it's the attitude and charisma, which this actress is really lacking.
quote:
They’re not trying to “subvert our expectations.” The end of season 2 has everyone pretty well lined up to go into the next book, Time of Contempt. Which is my personal favorite of the whole series. The issue outside of what could be described as very loosely if you’re generous, they lay none of the proper groundwork for the best parts to come. It will become an exponentially bigger issue moving forward.
The only big issue is that they used an established character, Eskel as the Lechen, killing off a named character that has a lot to do with future plots. I'm sure that they can replace him with someone else, but it just seems so damn unnecessary to kill a named character like that. Doesn't really bother me that much because I'm not a book reader (just a Witcher 3 completionist), but I can acknowledge that it's concerning, if only, because it's completely unnecessary.
I also didn't mind the Trial of the Grasses thing because it really played with Ciri's character development of wanting to protect people who care about her, of wanting freedom from the responsibilities of her nobility (everyone wanting her for her throne), her desperate need to prove that she belongs, and her desire to be just like her surrogate father. It really allowed them to develop Ciri effectively quickly, and gave Geralt some serious good-dad brownie points as well.
It's okay to differentiate from established properties when you do it well. No one really complains about the changes Peter Jackson made to the original Lord of The Rings trilogy despite leaving out the entire plot of the Scouring of the Shire.
This post was edited on 12/22/21 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 12/22/21 at 1:46 pm to td01241
quote:
AGREEING TO TEST IT ON CIRI FIRST. Wtf show? Finally he wants to kill Ciri for reasons? Knowing she’s possessed when the real Vesy would’ve immediately been down with the plan to lift or exorcise the demon
I agree total crock! Vesemir would have never even considered Killing Ciri. In the "WILD Hunt" he was 100% against Yennifer using the process to on Uma, to turn him back into Avallac'h.
quote:
The entire voleith Meir plot is retarded though.
Again spot on. Totally changes the Yennifer and Ciri relationship dynamic for no reason or benefit at all.
quote:
They also reportedly based the Voleith Meir character off Gaunter O’Dimm from the games
If this was what they were shooting for it was a massive fail, as I never even thought I was getting this.
But with all this said I'm eagerly awaiting season 3.
Posted on 12/22/21 at 1:53 pm to td01241
I think the future seasons of The Witcher show will be pretty darn good tv. But if you're banking on them following the "best parts to come" of the next book or any of the other books, then you are probably going to be in for some disappointment.
If I were you, I'd either just accept this series as a reboot, and have no expectation for your favorite parts of the books, or just stop watching. If you just look forward to watching a rebooted story, then maybe you might be in for a pleasant surprise or two if they actually to land some of those favorite parts. I mean, they'll still probably loosely follow the direction of the books.
But with that said, nothing in these first two seasons leads me to believe that this show will tank in quality as a Netflix show (apart from the books) going forward. They seemed to have set up all of the important characters with a decent path forward, even if they went about it in a roundabout way from the books.
Like I said, I haven't read the books, so I actually like how they've laid out the reasoning and goals of the different "camps" of characters, and most all of them (except for Garalt, Ciri, & Yen of course) seem to be the antagonists in this story, and yet are working against each other. I think there's a lot of directions the show can go, and still put out a great story going forward.
If I were you, I'd either just accept this series as a reboot, and have no expectation for your favorite parts of the books, or just stop watching. If you just look forward to watching a rebooted story, then maybe you might be in for a pleasant surprise or two if they actually to land some of those favorite parts. I mean, they'll still probably loosely follow the direction of the books.
But with that said, nothing in these first two seasons leads me to believe that this show will tank in quality as a Netflix show (apart from the books) going forward. They seemed to have set up all of the important characters with a decent path forward, even if they went about it in a roundabout way from the books.
Like I said, I haven't read the books, so I actually like how they've laid out the reasoning and goals of the different "camps" of characters, and most all of them (except for Garalt, Ciri, & Yen of course) seem to be the antagonists in this story, and yet are working against each other. I think there's a lot of directions the show can go, and still put out a great story going forward.
Posted on 12/22/21 at 2:10 pm to Bamatab
I too am thankful I havent read these books yet. I'd be too critical of plot stuff. I LOVE the show, and so do my friends who would never read this type of series. Season 2 was great. Only gripe was the baby elf being killed. This is the most evil thing you can do IMO, so Ciri's dad better be Ramsey Bolton's level of evil next season.
I got half way through W3 last year and never finished it. Going to reinstall soon and start over just to finish that storyline.
Completely agree on Triss- they failed miserably on her casting. She looks like a mid 40's bitchy nurse meanwhile Yen is a DIME.
I got half way through W3 last year and never finished it. Going to reinstall soon and start over just to finish that storyline.
Completely agree on Triss- they failed miserably on her casting. She looks like a mid 40's bitchy nurse
meanwhile Yen is a DIME. This post was edited on 12/22/21 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 12/22/21 at 2:19 pm to kingbob
Tbh killing Eskel isn’t really the issue, at least as far as I’m concerned. I don’t think they intend to go beyond the books into the games and even if they did the same solution I’m about to propose would apply outside of him being sort of a fan favorite, probably because he is so scare. For all intents and purposes Eskel might as well die at the end of blood of elves so fine kill him but for god sakes don’t desecrate the mans life and corpse. They played Coen up and he’s a much better actor than that Eskel wannabe so boom anything you’d want Eskel for going forward use Coen. Eskel is supposed to be VERY similar to Geralt though. Sort of a Geralt Vesemir hybrid. He’s not a wanton drunk who picks fights with people and acts like a Keanu Reeves Cyberpunk cosplayer whose on the spectrum.
I agree with Triss. They botched her bad and it’s not really just the look they did attempt to give her red hair at least. Triss is the youngest member of the lodge. Her appearance reflects that and she’s supposed to look like a 16 year old. She is selfish and tries to use her relationship mentoring Ciri to get to Geralt. She constant chooses self preservation over loyalty to anyone or anything. Does that in any way sound like the the charismatic plank of wood called Triss on the tv show?
I agree with Triss. They botched her bad and it’s not really just the look they did attempt to give her red hair at least. Triss is the youngest member of the lodge. Her appearance reflects that and she’s supposed to look like a 16 year old. She is selfish and tries to use her relationship mentoring Ciri to get to Geralt. She constant chooses self preservation over loyalty to anyone or anything. Does that in any way sound like the the charismatic plank of wood called Triss on the tv show?
Posted on 12/22/21 at 2:21 pm to YumYum Sauce
quote:
Ciris dad
Another fricking total abortion of a decision both his actions and when and how to reveal him. Emhyr isn’t some cartoon mustache twirling baby murdering caricature villain. He’s not even a true antagonistic old school villain at all even though he is reprehensible. The main antagonist hasnt even been revealed yet.
Posted on 12/22/21 at 2:28 pm to td01241
quote:
She is selfish and tries to use her relationship mentoring Ciri to get to Geralt. She constant chooses self preservation over loyalty to anyone or anything. Does that in any way sound like the the charismatic plank of wood called Triss on the tv show?
That's because Triss sees herself as a big sister to Ciri while Yenn sees herself as Ciri's step-mom. Triss is super insecure while Yenn is over-confident. Triss tries to play good cop while Yenn tries to be a boss.
It's a fun choice in the games because Yenn is the sarcastic, challenging, cold, in-your-face, B; while Triss is the easy-going, almost bubbly, weak, insecure, and flippant chick. Yenn is the Tsundere (for you weebs). She acts cold and distant because she's afraid to get hurt, but once you break through that wall, she's ride or die. Triss is the kind of girl that wants what she wants when she wants it. She comes on strong with love-bombing at the beginning of the relationship, manipulates you behind your back, then ghosts you as soon as she's found something better. Everything seems perfect until she's suddenly gone off with someone else.
It's like the perfect dichotomy of two of the polar opposite kinds of women that a lot of guys find themselves dating at different times of their lives. One gives off the superficial appearances of affection because that affection is merely a means to an end that has nothing to do with romantic feelings. The other holds back her feelings until they're real, safe, and can no longer be contained. Her affection is genuine because it's not her natural mode but something just for you.
It sucks that the show will likely fail at conveying this.
This post was edited on 12/22/21 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 12/22/21 at 2:29 pm to kingbob
I was speaking more from a book perspective. Triss is interpreted a bit different in the game’s. She’s shown in a more flattering light as a better person. Especially in Witcher 3 which is probably the only one 75% of gamers play.
Posted on 12/22/21 at 2:29 pm to td01241
quote:
video games
A little too old for that.
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