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Was Harry Potter a great or average wizard?

Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:18 am
Posted by LeonPhelps
Member since May 2008
8185 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:18 am
I first read the Harry Potter series in 2000. I think the 4th book had recently come out. I re-read the series around 2005 for the 6th book coming out, then again when the 7th book came out, and again earlier this year just for fun. It only takes a couple of weeks to read the entire series.

One thing that always bothered me is that Harry does not seem to evince the primary trait held up as belonging to great wizards - brilliant, innovative magic.

We have the example of possibly the greatest wizard to ever live in Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore. His brilliance is cited most often as why he is so great. He did things with a wand while still at Hogwarts never seen before. He discovered the 12 uses of dragon's blood. He defeated Gregorivich, who had the Elder Wand, it what is considered the greatest duel of all time.

We have Severus Snape, who was a potions prodigy and, according to Sirius, knew more hexes as a first year than most 7th years. He invented a number of new hexes while still at Hogwarts, including one that causes you to be hung upside down as though someone is holding your ankle. He even improved upon the textbook as a student.

Of course, Voldemort is the greatest dark wizard of all time thanks to his brilliance. He did advanced magic as a 5th year that probably only Dumbledore was capable of doing in the entire series when he turned a diary into a Horcrux that would interact with the writer and ultimately subsume the writer.

Hermione is called the greatest witch of her age because she has a wonderful mind. She does every spell correctly the first time (except for Patronus). She does advanced potions flawlessly.

Harry's own parents were both Head Boy and Head Girl. James didn't even need to study and aced everything. They are direct descendants of the great Peverell brothers - the best of the 3 brothers actually. James and Sirius even figure out how to be animagi on their own as students and create an incredibly advanced map that not even Snape can crack. Hell, even the Weasley twins, who are clearly brilliant, invent new magic for their joke shop that is used by the Order of the Phoenix to fight Death Eaters, such as Peruvian instant dark powder and the extendable ears. A portion of that swamp they created in the Great Hall when they split Hogwarts was left by Flitwick because he thought it was great magic and should be remembered.

But Harry is no where near the level as those above. He never invents new magic. Always struggles with learning new spells the first time (even requiring private tutoring from Hermione for the accio spell). He only received 8 O.W.L.'s. I was so pissed when I read that in the 6th book. So Harry would seem like an average to slightly above average wizard at best.

So why is he the hero of our story? I would much rather read about a brilliant mind like Dumbledore's who outsmarts Voldemort with some brilliant new magic.

But as I read the books this last time, I realized why Harry is the appropriate hero of the story and why he is a great wizard in his own right. He becomes head auror by age 27, the youngest ever, for a reason.

Harry's skill comes from his own personal conviction, exceptional intuition, very quick reflexes, mastery of basic to advanced spells, and pretty good potion work when Snape isn't creating a hostile work environment. There are many different types of wizards. Some are the great scholars, and that is really what we see held up in Dumbledore, Snape, and Voldemort. But there are other important areas. Harry is a great Wizard Knight.

Conviction - this matters a lot in this world. Longbottom only becomes a good wizard when he starts believing in himself. Personal conviction is required to get the magic right. It is most important to produce a corporeal patronus, which Harry does at the ripe old age of 13 when even most adults cannot. It was said only a great wizard could do that. Further, he is the only student that could throw off the Imperius Curse. That requires a ridiculous amount of conviction. He even threw off Voldemort's Imperius Curse - that is probably the most badass thing that occurred in the entire series.

Intuition - He is able to pull together theories based on very little, and he is nearly always right. Remus even told him as much in the Deathly Hallows - telling him his instincts are nearly always right. For a dark wizard hunter, that is one of the most important skills you need. He is often a few steps ahead of even Hermione on figuring out what's truly going on. The wand lore he figures out well ahead of anyone else is the best example.

Quick reflexes - he is the first 1st year student to be the seeker at Hogwarts in 100 years. He never once failed to get the Snitch before his opponent. In dueling, his reflexes allow him to escape and/or defeat his enemy time after time. His reflexes saved him from Voldemort in the graveyard and from numerous Death Eaters in the department of mysteries. He was the only student to escape unscathed from that battle due to his reflexes. Once you have a basic mastery of spells, there is no more important skill in dueling than reflexes.

Mastery of basic to advanced spells - It may take him longer than Hermione to get a new spell right, but once he has it, he performs it flawlessly. His spells are also particularly powerful, such as his shield charm even knocking people back. We don't ever see a spell Harry cannot perform once he is taught it. He learns so many spells to fight the dark arts from Remus and from the book Sirius gave him that, as a 5th year, he teaches even 7th years a bunch of new spells. He even gets Snape's dark spell right perfectly just from reading it in a book.

Good at potions - Harry might not be the prodigy Snape is, but when shown a set of good directions, he can create perfect spells. His creation of the liquid luck potion amazed Slughorn. He also understood and recalled that a Bezoar can offset poison, something Slughorn even forgot while Ron was dying in his office.

Do I wish Harry invented new spells and displayed some brilliance? Yes. I mean, he had to be smart if both of his parents were Valedictorian. But his skills are in being a great Knight in the wizarding world. I expect he would eventually make Mad-Eye Moody look like an amateur. Knowing wizards live to be over 100 easily, Harry probably was in charge of the Auror's department for 100 years or so. I would love to read a book on a 75 year to 100 year old Harry defeating the next great dark wizard.

So am I crazy or is Harry a great wizard despite not showing the brilliance of Dumbledore and others?
Posted by GeauxTigerTM
Member since Sep 2006
30596 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:25 am to
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
18585 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:26 am to
I Reread the books recently and greatly enjoyed it other than I noticed the amount of animal cruelty was at extreme levels.

Harry Potter was probably near the top of his class. He wasn't intellectual which is why he sucked at potions but he got Owls in everything else if I remember and he was far and away the most experienced wizard to ever graduate hogwadts when it comes to practical application.

People don't want to follow someone who comes across as perfect like a hermoine. People can't relate to that. Harry Potter had struggled and wasn't brilliant and yet he overcame something to be one of the greatest wizards ever. A much better story.
This post was edited on 7/22/15 at 10:27 am
Posted by LeonPhelps
Member since May 2008
8185 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:28 am to
A lot of people think Harry is an average wizard at best. Just look at Harry Potter forums. I used to think the same until this latest re-read. The recent Harry Potter threads prompted me to write this.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25747 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:29 am to
this is the movie/tv board, not the book board.
Enough with the god damn book threads.
Posted by StringedInstruments
Member since Oct 2013
18448 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:30 am to
I didn't read your James Joyce essay.

But I do not think Harry Potter was a great wizard, at least from what we've seen. Harry simply had an excellent defense against the darkest and one of the most powerful wizards ever.

Why Harry was such a lovable and relatable character was because he was more human than wizard. He was defended by love, aided by friendship, and successful through courage. He was everything we want our soldiers to be except he existed and won in a magical world instead of the real world.
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
43876 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:30 am to
quote:

He discovered the 12 uses of dragon's blood


Rumor is he "borrowed" another wizard's notes who had already discovered the first 8 uses....
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45088 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:30 am to
Has anyone ever realized that the reason Dumbledore dies is all because of Harry?Had Harry not been a little bitch in year one, he goes Slytherin and then becomes friends with Draco Malfoy who isn't going to kill the headmaster that Harry is tight with. That's all it would have taken. The only other Death Eaters who had kids at Hogwarts, if my memory is correct, is Crabbe and Goyle who also would have been Harry's bros.

It's all Harry's fault for thinking about himself and not about what the consequences of going Gryffindor had.

Malfoy=GOAT.
Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
18585 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:31 am to
I used to think that too and then I Reread the books. Seriously, they talk a lot about how he has great skills and did advanced magic way before his years. The patronious was the best example.
Posted by sicboy
Because Awesome
Member since Nov 2010
77649 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:32 am to
I'm not reading all of that, but I'll say he's a really good wizard in certain areas, not in others (see Occlumency). He always excelled at Defense Against the Dark Arts, though.

His strongest trait was that he never backed down from whatever challenge he faced. Always confronted it head on, even if he knew it meant certain death. Dumbledore pointed out that was the biggest advantage Harry had over Voldemort. Voldemort feared death, and Harry "welcomed it like an old friend".


I remember the speech from Spiers in Band of Brothers. Summarizing, said that until you accepted that you were going to die at some point in this war, you couldn't function as a true soldier should.
Posted by sicboy
Because Awesome
Member since Nov 2010
77649 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:32 am to
quote:

Rumor is he "borrowed" another wizard's notes who had already discovered the first 8 uses....


OK, Rita.
Posted by LeonPhelps
Member since May 2008
8185 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:33 am to
quote:

Rumor is he "borrowed" another wizard's notes who had already discovered the first 8 uses....


Get out of here, Rita.

If there was ever a character I wanted to be brutally murdered, it was Rita.
Posted by sicboy
Because Awesome
Member since Nov 2010
77649 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:33 am to
quote:

this is the movie/tv board, not the book board.
Enough with the god damn book threads.


Chicken added a new feature to the site. It's called "click on the threads you want to read and DON'T CLICK ON THE THREADS YOU DON'T WANT TO READ".


Might be a premium member feature, though.
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
43876 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:34 am to
quote:

Has anyone ever realized that the reason Dumbledore dies is all because of Harry?Had Harry not been a little bitch in year one, he goes Slytherin and then becomes friends with Draco Malfoy who isn't going to kill the headmaster that Harry is tight with. That's all it would have taken. The only other Death Eaters who had kids at Hogwarts, if my memory is correct, is Crabbe and Goyle who also would have been Harry's bros.


In this scenario, it's highly likely that Harry would have sided with Voldemort and, therefore, millions more would have died.

Saving millions > Saving Dumbledore
Posted by SwaggerCopter
H TINE HOL IT DINE
Member since Dec 2012
27232 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:38 am to
quote:

It's all Harry's fault for thinking about himself and not about what the consequences of going Gryffindor had.


Harry would have been buttfricked by Voldemort in Slytherin. Without Ron and Hermione to help, he's in serious trouble.
Posted by The Godfather
Surrounded by Assholes
Member since Mar 2005
41446 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:38 am to
quote:

this is the movie/tv board, not the book board. 
Enough with the god damn book threads.





This is where book threads go
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
43876 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:38 am to
quote:

Get out of here, Rita.

If there was ever a character I wanted to be brutally murdered, it was Rita.


Yeah no shite. I guess wizards didn't have libel or slander laws.
Posted by sicboy
Because Awesome
Member since Nov 2010
77649 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:40 am to
I'm pretty sure he was trolling.


Harry worried about that for a while, knowing the hat wanted to put him in Slytherin, but Dumbledore told him that he had a choice, ALWAYS had a choice. He had a choice to ignore the prophecy or grab on to it, and choosing to accept it was the only thing that gave the prophecy any credence.

I love this part of Prince:


“‘But, sir,’ said Harry, making valiant efforts not to sound argumentative, ‘it all comes to the same thing, doesn’t it? I’ve got to try and kill him, or -‘
‘Got to?’ said Dumbledore. ‘Of course you’ve got to! But not because of the prophecy! Because you, yourself, will never rest until you’ve tried! We both know it! Imagine, please, just for a moment, that you had never heard that prophecy! How would you feel about Voldemort now? Think!’

Harry watched Dumbledore striding up and down in front of him, and thought. He thought of his mother, his father and Sirius. He thought of Cedric Diggory. He thought of all the terrible deeds he knew Lord Voldemort had done. A flame seemed to leap inside his chest, searing his throat.

‘I’d want him finished,’ said Harry quietly. ‘And I’d want to do it.’

‘Of course you would!’ cried Dumbledore. ‘You see, the prophecy does not mean you have to do anything! But the prophecy caused Lord Voldemort to mark you as his equal … in other words, you are free to choose your way, quite free to turn your back on the prophecy! But Voldemort continues to set store by the prophecy. He will continue to hunt you … which makes it certain, really, that -‘

‘That one of use is going to end up killing the other,’ said Harry. ‘Yes.’

But he understood at last what Dumbledore had been trying to tell him. It was, he thought, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head held high. Some people, perhaps, would say that there was little to choose between the two ways, but Dumbledore knew - and so do I, thought Harry, with a rush of fierce pride, and so did my parents - that there was all the difference in the world.”
Posted by RB10
Member since Nov 2010
43876 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:46 am to
quote:

I'm pretty sure he was trolling.


I'm sure he was. I was just poking a huge hole in his troll.

Harry became the man he was becuase of Gryffindor, or more importantly, the people that he surrounded himself with in Gryffindor. Mainly Ron and Hermione, but also the entire Weasley family along with Neville Longbottom. Also, had he gone into Slytherin, he would not have had the same relationships with Hagrid or Sirius.

This post was edited on 7/22/15 at 10:47 am
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45088 posts
Posted on 7/22/15 at 10:46 am to
quote:

In this scenario, it's highly likely that Harry would have sided with Voldemort and, therefore, millions more would have died.

Saving millions > Saving Dumbledore


Zero chance Harry sides with Voldemoret. The guy killed his parents. That was NEVER going to happen.
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