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re: Toy Story 3: Were Lotso’s initial expectations really that unreasonable?
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:06 am to Ash Williams
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:06 am to Ash Williams
quote:
BTW, let me add that I like that you've taken the "Lotso is a reasonable guy that was misunderstood and Andy's toys ultimately drove him off the deep end" position.
quote:
Kind of has a North Korea vibe to it
To me it has a "every menial type of job ever" vibe to it. When you start a job at a grocery store, you begin by cleaning up the spills in the aisles and the vomit in the bathrooms and stocking shelves. You don't come in and immediately get to be head cashier or work in Electronics. You pay your dues like everyone else who came before you, and work your way up into the more desirable positions.
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Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:15 am to The Eric
quote:
Lotso and his companions created a functioning society where one had to pay his dues to make it.
That was what they told people it was, but that was not what it was.
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The Toy Story Group comes in thinking they are special... but they aren't. We as the audience are supposed to go along with the Toy Story Group because that is who we have been raised to believe are the heroes.
Except they are, because the premise at the beginning is false. He's not "sharing the load". He's killing the new toys to protect his caste. You don't "earn" your way out through "sharing the load". No amount of playing with the toddlers will "earn" your way into the older kid room. It's a lie, much like the infamous sign above Auschwitz "Er macht frae" (Work will make you free). It's a lie. They're being "worked" to death.
You only join the inner circle by proving loyalty. It's just like every other authoritarian regime. The common rabble are tortured and left to die while the elite are exempt from their own rules and classes are determined not by wealth but by loyalty to the regime.
quote:
But what if we grew up with Lotso and crew and saw their story and then all of a sudden a bunch of entitled new toys come in and try to screw up the system.
You're assuming he wasn't already crazy. They just pushed him into taking off his mask. He was 100% rotten to the core before they got there.
This post was edited on 10/26/21 at 10:18 am
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:24 am to The Eric
quote:
Lotso and his companions created a functioning society where one had to pay his dues to make it.
Difficult statement to make because there's a difference between "paying your dues," - like actually paying into something like social security before you take out stuff, and "paying your dues" being forced to be a second class citizen until some person in power decides that it's "your time."
Someone with that power, can and if they are human, will abuse it.
quote:
The Toy Story Group comes in thinking they are special... but they aren't.
This is true, but...
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We as the audience are supposed to go along with the Toy Story Group because that is who we have been raised to believe are the heroes.
But what if we grew up with Lotso and crew and saw their story and then all of a sudden a bunch of entitled new toys come in and try to screw up the system.
Well, what if the system is wrong and imbalanced? Even if the goal isn't necessarily to "overthrow the system," maybe it's there to force change in the system.
quote:
Basically its a bunch of millennials coming in and trying to change stuff just because they have to rent an apartment instead of owning a home.
They should be able to rent a home if they can afford a home, or so says economics, bad comparison.
A better comparison is freshman coming into wanting the large dorms over seniors who "put in time" in the small dorms. Everyone pays the same price, but the outcomes are different based on "veteranship."
quote:
I feel for Lotso and crew.... Do I think he handled the right way? Not necessarily but I also don't think that the toy story crew were very kind.
What it is is an authoritarian vs. a group of opposed idealists. The Toy Story characters are annoying because they are pure idealists.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:25 am to kingbob
quote:
Except they are, because the premise at the beginning is false. He's not "sharing the load". He's killing the new toys to protect his caste. You don't "earn" your way out through "sharing the load". No amount of playing with the toddlers will "earn" your way into the older kid room. It's a lie, much like the infamous sign above Auschwitz "Er macht frae" (Work will make you free). It's a lie. They're being "worked" to death.
You only join the inner circle by proving loyalty. It's just like every other authoritarian regime. The common rabble are tortured and left to die while the elite are exempt from their own rules and classes are determined not by wealth but by loyalty to the regime.
Ding ding ding.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:28 am to Yat27
I had no idea people even really liked 3. I always though it was fine. And as clear a money grab as 4 albeit much better.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:36 am to jlovel7
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I had no idea people even really liked 3.
It's fairly universally praised on here as the best of the series by far.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:41 am to CocomoLSU
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had no idea people even really liked 3. It's fairly universally praised on here as the best of the series by far.
Then that’s easily the MTV boards worst collective take. I’m pretty surprised by that actually.
I like 3 but it’s just eh. Clearly to me apart of the modern movement in Hollywood today to just bleed existing properties dry rather than risk new stuff. Toy story 3 was part of that before it became the dominant force in Hollywood.
This post was edited on 10/26/21 at 10:43 am
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:45 am to jlovel7
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I had no idea people even really liked 3. I always though it was fine. And as clear a money grab as 4 albeit much better.
Toy Story 3 was nominated for Best Picture.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:47 am to kingbob
quote:
You're assuming he wasn't already crazy. They just pushed him into taking off his mask. He was 100% rotten to the core before they got there.
Plus Lotso was so vile that word reached the toys back at Bonnie’s on how bad he was. No, Lotso had long, long snapped before meeting Woody’s gang.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 10:59 am to jlovel7
quote:
Then that’s easily the MTV boards worst collective take.
quote:
I like 3 but it’s just eh. Clearly to me apart of the modern movement in Hollywood today to just bleed existing properties dry rather than risk new stuff. Toy story 3 was part of that before it became the dominant force in Hollywood.
So you think TS2 is the best, which can arguably be labeled as an attempt to "bleed the existing property" out of more money, but then dislike TS3 which is the far better film quality-wise, and wraps up the story neatly and perfectly? That doesn't make much sense.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:06 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Toy Story 3 was nominated for Best Picture.
Deservedly, I might add. It’s my favorite of the franchise. Toy Story 2 is fantastic as well. I don’t consider that sort of sequel to be “bleeding a franchise dry” because both movies are different creative takes on the characters and universe that really add a lot to the lore and develop the characters in interesting ways while also pushing the plot forward. Toy Story 2 really nails collector culture and nostalgia. Toy Story 3 really nails the growing up dynamic and passing on your toys to the next generation. It’s high quality stuff, not simply a lazy reboot or cash grab sequel (Toy Story 4)
This post was edited on 10/26/21 at 11:10 am
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:16 am to kingbob
in a franchise full of great films, 3 is the standout
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:18 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Toy Story 3 was nominated for Best Picture.
As if that actually means anything anymore?
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:23 am to Ash Williams
quote:
BTW, let me add that I like that you've taken the "Lotso is a reasonable guy that was misunderstood and Andy's toys ultimately drove him off the deep end" position.
The telephone implies that Lotso rule is a little more sinister. We are to assume that he has been violent in the past so I have a hard time believing that it was Andy's toys that did it.
But at the same time, they came into a prison and tried to run it without paying dues
This post was edited on 10/26/21 at 11:24 am
Posted on 10/26/21 at 11:28 am to kingbob
quote:
It’s high quality stuff, not simply a lazy reboot or cash grab sequel (Toy Story 4)
The thing is, Toy Story 4 was still pretty good. I've only watched it once but still, i had very low expectations and came out happy.
3 was the perfect way to end the series, and still sort of was the end. 4 was more just an unnecessary coda
Posted on 10/26/21 at 1:13 pm to CocomoLSU
Woody and the gang couldn’t accept being pledges. Sometimes you have to mop up some shite in the house bathrooms.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 1:16 pm to kingbob
quote:
Except they are, because the premise at the beginning is false. He's not "sharing the load". He's killing the new toys to protect his caste. You don't "earn" your way out through "sharing the load". No amount of playing with the toddlers will "earn" your way into the older kid room. It's a lie, much like the infamous sign above Auschwitz "Er macht frae" (Work will make you free). It's a lie. They're being "worked" to death.
You only join the inner circle by proving loyalty. It's just like every other authoritarian regime. The common rabble are tortured and left to die while the elite are exempt from their own rules and classes are determined not by wealth but by loyalty to the regime.
Propaganda created by Bolsheviks like yourself. The toy story group is rewriting the history books in order to make them seem like the reasonable group.
All Lotso wanted was a working society where he was free to give hugs to the children. Woody and his whore of a friend Jessie thinks this is just Woody's Roundup where he's the hero.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 1:19 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
So you think TS2 is the best, which can arguably be labeled as an attempt to "bleed the existing property" out of more money, but then dislike TS3 which is the far better film quality-wise, and wraps up the story neatly and perfectly? That doesn't make much sense.
Toy Story 2 probably ranks 3rd on the list... but the Toy Story 2 video game on N64 was one of the best movie video games ever.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 1:56 pm to jlovel7
quote:
As if that actually means anything anymore?
It did at the time.
Posted on 10/26/21 at 2:19 pm to CocomoLSU
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It's like an adult committing crimes that was molested as a child...
Funny that you mention this, because Hollywood (Sunnyside) works like a criminal molestation ring, they even use the butterfly as symbol.
quote:
New toys at Sunnyside have to come in and pay their dues with the young kids in the Caterpillar Room and sort of “earn” their right to get thrown in with the older kids of the Butterfly Room who play less rough
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