First of all, I think that it's very true to the spirit of Tolkien. The lessons that the characters learn, or that we as viewers learn, are very much in the spirit of those in Tolkien's writings.

I think that it's visually breathtaking, and that places such as Khazad-Dum and Numenor look exactly what Tolkien would want them to look like.

The production values of the show are off the charts -- for crying out loud, there is excellent new music composed and recorded for every single episode.

And, this season, the acting is excellent, while the writing and direction are much improved from last season.

It's certainly not perfect. As has been discussed, the Rhun storyline this season was weak, and the Dark Wizard stuff seemed awkward.

But everything with the dwarves has been incredible. Haven't you enjoyed how much better we understand their civilization (as depicted in the show), with the stonesingers and such?

This season has just had so many incredible moments:

- Sauron's first appearance to Celebrimbor as Annatar, coming as an angel of light.

- The sea trial of Muriel, with the sea worm staring her in the eye and judging her innocent (how is the worm connected to Ulmo and the valar? -- it must be a maia)

- The great battles for Eregion

- Durin vs the balrog

I really liked the complexity of Adar's story arc over these two seasons. I found myself moved by the effect of the ring on him.

Is that enough for you? Yes, this season was a very good show.

Of course, it doesn't adhere closely to Tolkien's timeline -- it couldn't take place over hundreds of years without needing many more characters, and that wouldn't make for good TV. I don't agree with all of the departures from lore that the show has made, and yet I was able to enjoy the LOTR movies even though Peter Jackson ruined Faramir, my favorite character in the story.

This post was edited on 10/8/24 at 8:06 pm

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Posted by DMagic

#ChowderPosse

Member since Aug 2010

49935 posts

Posted on 10/8/24 at 8:56 pm to GOP_Tiger

It’s good looking for sure but you guys thinking the acting has been good blow my mind. Elrond is good as are a couple of the dwarves the rest are passable to bad. Gil-Galad and Celebrimbor in particular are very bad.

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Posted by iwyLSUiwy

I'm your huckleberry

Member since Apr 2008

40842 posts

Posted on 10/9/24 at 10:17 am to GOP_Tiger

quote:
Is that enough for you? Yes, this season was a very good show.

I'm not demanding you tell me why you like the show like I'm due an answer, I was just simply asking. Because just being honest, for the most part it is people who don't know the lore that like the show, and you obviously do know the lore. So I was just curious. Especially the very good part. I'm not on here trying to convince people to not like the show.

But just for discussions sake...

I agree about the production, visuals, score, all that stuff. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't care who you are, those things can't be argued. Though the Stoor kid and the dark wizards costume/beard/hair were pretty corny looking. But that's certainly not something worth griping over considering overall how good it was.

quote:
And, this season, the acting is excellent, while the writing and direction are much improved from last season.

I would say the acting is hot or miss. It's not surprising that the best acting goes hand in hand with the best story lines and the bad acting with the bad story lines. The writing has gotten better, but it was just straight up bad in S1, so it was hard not to get better. And still, overall, the writing does not reach the level of good. It's ok, and that's being generous. Writing is by no means a strong point of this show. If the writing continues to improve and get better in S3, then we're probably getting into some complimentary levels of writing. I normally can sit back and not nitpick a show, but I could literally pick this apart, not even factoring stuff that irks me about the lore, just dumb stuff that doesn't even make sense in the world they've created.

quote:
But everything with the dwarves has been incredible. Haven't you enjoyed how much better we understand their civilization (as depicted in the show), with the stonesingers and such?

I would have argued that the dwarves were probably my favorite part of the show (not counting the Balrog), even better than Annatar and Celebrimbor, until the last two episodes where they just completely flipped the story on it's head. Both Durins are great actors, they look great, and they are a perfect fit. They just went and defied any logic the story had going when they have the son overthrow the authority of the king, And ALL the dwarves just be perfectly ok with it. In one episode, te dwarves are literally shouting his name in triumph for saving them and bringing them wealth like they've never seen, and in the next episode Disa has Durin and the rest convinced to lead a revolt against him

Come on.

Also, the stonesingers are just made up. Not really something I learned about the dwarves. It was just something a little corny thrown in to make Disa (a good character whom I like) seem more important. I would have been completely fine with that not being in there at all.

quote:
This season has just had so many incredible moments:

- Sauron's first appearance to Celebrimbor as Annatar, coming as an angel of light.

Yep. A highlight of the season.

quote:
- The sea trial of Muriel, with the sea worm staring her in the eye and judging her innocent (how is the worm connected to Ulmo and the valar? -- it must be a maia)

Not only was this pretty dumb, but one episode later it they made the whole thing completely pointless. Besides this not being anything Tolkien or honestly not even feeling like this was something Tolkien would write, they made it irrelevant almost immediately. Pharazon and co. are taking this seriously and everyone realizes this is some legitimate way of judging. Pharazon and co. are pretty convinced that the sea monster is going to take her but the monster judges her worthy so they have to sit and basically see her restored to the throne. (Why not just have Elendil and Miriel thrown in jail?

) The, the very next time we see them, right after this divine sea monster judgement, the kings men throw it all out the window and claim the diving trial was a joke and that Sauron was involved. Sauron? The Sauron that they really have no concern at all over at this point who is really just a mythical figure at this point. And everyone buys it. That's season one level bad Rings of Power slipped right into season two.

quote:
- The great battles for Eregion

We chatted about this episode a bit a few pages back so I won't bother saying the same stuff over, but it was pretty underwhelming. Quite a few nonsensical parts that kept me from enjoying it. Especially the the same six orcs who don't get shot at use some weird contraption that pulls bricks out seemingly one by one for an hour to break a wall down when they had trebuchet that literally collapsed the side of a mountain in a few throws.

quote:
- Durin vs the balrog

Did this accomplish anything? I honestly don't know. He basically just committed suicide right?. He saw what the ring was doing to him and was willing to take it off, why not live to fight another day? Even if that suerved a good purpose and he actually was able to fight off the Balrog in some way, I can't get over the Balrog even being active in the first place. So the dwarves are just going to be ok with a Balrog there for centuries and keep digging with it a couple hundred feet away? Ok.

I'm not trying to argue here btw, just a general discussion. Not many people posted in this thread even though it was only the last few pages where trolls came along.

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Posted by Scoob

Near Exxon

Member since Jun 2009

23015 posts

Posted on 10/9/24 at 2:14 pm to iwyLSUiwy

I think a lot of people are overlooking something here-

We have SOMETHING.

I love the Tolkien Middle-Earth universe, even though most of the books are not novels. Only LOTR and The Hobbit are. The Silmarillion is a history textbook, and most of the rest are basically academic reviews of unfinished manuscripts, usually containing 3 or more versions (some more complete but earlier, some later and more in line with the rest, but not as detailed and unfinished).
It's a very cool and unique world. I enjoy exploring it, and discussing it with others... which is kind of hard to do in person if you're not in a book club

Prior to this, on screen, the last thing we had was The Hobbit, a trilogy (not very well-received either) a decade old, and set only 50 or so years before LOTR.
This, for all the gripes and complaints, keeps the property current, and actually does expand the lore that's presented visually. It's a live discussion, and those who bother to learn from the books NOW and say "no, it shouldn't have been like that", they're still getting into it.

To contrast- I like a lot of other, older fantasy stuff. I like Robert E Howard's Conan tales, I liked Edgar Rice Burrough's John Carter and Tarzan stuff.
Conan is NOT Arnold Schwarzenegger, despite the movie's effect on culture. Conan wasn't just big and kinda dumb, he was physically described a lot more like the Jason Mamoa version; and he was sharp and cunning. Most of that is now lost, if you see the name you think Arnold, or maybe some Frazetta art.
As for Burrough's works, I was excited for John Carter. I liked the movie, even though it wasn't pure to the books (it had a good bit, but a fair bit modified too). But it had been left out of media (other than old books) so long, people didn't know anything about it, and thought it derivative from more recent tales.
I doubt anyone has any clue of Tarzan anymore, other than some folks thinking it was a B tier Disney film. Certainly not the original ruthless dude.

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