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re: So, who should play Holden Caulfield if "Catcher in the Rye" is ever
Posted on 4/22/13 at 8:34 am to Holden Caulfield
Posted on 4/22/13 at 8:34 am to Holden Caulfield
quote:
That's the terrible part. I swear to God I'm a madman.
0
Posted on 4/22/13 at 8:56 am to Holden Caulfield
quote:
quote: Well, you'll probably not like him, then like him, then not like him again. That's the terrible part. I swear to God I'm a madman.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 9:01 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
The guy was a turd.
OK, if that's your considered opinion after reading the book but I believe you may be missing the true Holden. Salinger provided the character a complexity that, if explored, proves him to be anything but a turd.
Holden at his core is an extremely lonely, guilt ridden and self deprecating individual. He reaches out to nearly everyone he crosses in the book but rejects their companionship because he feels he is not worthy of being liked by anyone. He considers all his siblings to be smarter and better than him. To protect himself he attaches his own failings on to others so he can reject them before they reject him. He even desires to live as a deaf mute so he doesn't have to interact with others and face rejection.
The thing I liked about Holden is his candor. He dogs others but he's far worse on himself. He's brutally honest. He is a very complex character and testament to Salinger's skills.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 9:06 am to Jay Quest
The story of the poems on the baseball mitt was one of the most touching things I've ever had the pleasure to read.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 9:13 am to Rex
quote:
So, who should play Holden Caulfield if "Catcher in the Rye" is ever
made into a movie?
I am ashamed to say I have never read this. It's been on my "To Read" list for years, but I've never gotten around to doing it.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 9:19 am to Rex
quote:
The story of the poems on the baseball mitt was one of the most touching things I've ever had the pleasure to read.
Yea, that was nice. Been awhile since I read the book and had forgotten that part. Thanks for the reminder.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 9:24 am to elprez00
quote:\
I am ashamed to say I have never read this. It's been on my "To Read" list for years, but I've never gotten around to doing it.
I'd been meaning to read it since high school. Finally got around to it last week. I'm 59½ years old now.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 9:24 am to Jay Quest
They basically already made a Catcher In the Rye movie. It was called Igby Goes Down and it was based on the book. Keiran Culkin played the title character.
This post was edited on 4/22/13 at 9:26 am
Posted on 4/22/13 at 9:57 am to Hester Carries
If all you read is the narrative then its easy to dismiss Holden as whiny. However the book won't truly resonate until you consider the reasons why Holden thinks and behaves the way he does. Holden can't explain it to the reader because he's only 17 and can't discern his own psyche yet. The guilt Holden feels over Allie's death defines him but he doesn't know it.
One of the most revealing passages in the book is when Holden thinks about Allie laying in his grave in the rain next to other dead people. Holden doesn't consider the experience from his own perspective but rather from Allie's. Throughout this book Holden is obsessed with death.
Holden is a layered character. He's much more than a whiner.
One of the most revealing passages in the book is when Holden thinks about Allie laying in his grave in the rain next to other dead people. Holden doesn't consider the experience from his own perspective but rather from Allie's. Throughout this book Holden is obsessed with death.
Holden is a layered character. He's much more than a whiner.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 10:01 am to Jay Quest
The Holden Caufield archetype character is a scourge on modern literature and movies. It is perhaps my least favorite subgenre of art -- whiny rich trust fund babies complaining that their dad din't hug them enough. It's a way for the privileged to complain that they are not privileged enough.
Sorry your life isn't perfect. Get a job.
Critics love this kind of movie, because they too are largely private school educated, city-dwelling, northeasteners who feel that their sensitivity was never appreciated. It is by far the most dreary, yet overpraised type of art in modern America. If you want to know why I want to nut punch Wes Anderson, it's largely for expanding on the Holden Caufield archetype in almost all of his films.
Stop it. It's whiny navel gazing.
Sorry your life isn't perfect. Get a job.
Critics love this kind of movie, because they too are largely private school educated, city-dwelling, northeasteners who feel that their sensitivity was never appreciated. It is by far the most dreary, yet overpraised type of art in modern America. If you want to know why I want to nut punch Wes Anderson, it's largely for expanding on the Holden Caufield archetype in almost all of his films.
Stop it. It's whiny navel gazing.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 10:03 am to Rex
I always read it as he was a crazy person living in a mental institution who made up characters and stories (unreliable narrator)to tell the audience only what he wanted them to know...its likely he was estranged from his family and perhaps was responsible for the death of his brother.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 10:16 am to Baloo
quote:
whiny rich trust fund babies complaining that their dad din't hug them enough.
Hmmm.... I must have missed that part. I don't recall Holden ever whining about his father's lack of love or attention... and I never got the sense he felt unloved or unappreciated. He certainly felt unworthy, though, and his attitudes were shaped by trauma rather than privilege. He was a defender of innocence because his had been taken from him; I loved him from the opening page.
eta: And that we're arguing about him is a point for Salinger, I think.
This post was edited on 4/22/13 at 10:19 am
Posted on 4/22/13 at 10:16 am to Jay Quest
quote:
Holden at his core is an extremely lonely, guilt ridden and self deprecating individual. He reaches out to nearly everyone he crosses in the book but rejects their companionship because he feels he is not worthy of being liked by anyone
No, he's just a turd.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 10:25 am to Baloo
quote:
appreciated
good word, ole chap
quote:
. If you want to know why I want to nut punch Wes Anderson, it's largely for expanding on the Holden Caufield archetype in almost all of his films.
i knew you'd go there
BUT, that started with royal tennenbaums. rushmore really didn't involve this at all. it actually was kind of the opposite. "take aim at the rich kids". bottle rocket involved some upper middle class guys but i don't think it truly fits.
now royal tennenbaums obviously was a sallinger rip off. i still enjoy it (and i know you hate it)
darjeeng limited was terrible
i think life aquatic is outside of this theme and it's pretty good
Posted on 4/22/13 at 10:27 am to Baloo
quote:
whiny rich trust fund babies complaining that their dad din't hug them enough.
This issue was never part of Holden's makeup.
quote:
It's a way for the privileged to complain that they are not privileged enough.
Not part of the narrative. Holden, if anything, felt unworthy.
This post was edited on 4/22/13 at 10:28 am
Posted on 4/22/13 at 10:56 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
Since Holden Caulfield sucks, it should be an actor that sucks. So, Shia Leboeuf.
Good Lord, he is HORRIBLE. He pretty much ruins every movie he's in. I couldn't wait for Wall Street II, but that little prick RUINED it.
He's sort of like that kid that likes to act tough, but gets his arse kicked on a regular basis. He's also the kid who was voted "Most Likely To Get His arse Kicked While Telling You How Tough He Is". Even the "nice kids" want to kick his arse just for the hell of it because he's just a swarmy little prick -- sort of like Rex.
As to WHO?
A few years back, the kid from "Home Improvement" (Jonathon whatever) could have done a decent job.
Although he's not well known, I think the kid who plays Lip in "Shameless" would be a good pick.
This post was edited on 4/22/13 at 11:02 am
Posted on 4/22/13 at 11:08 am to Holden Caulfield
quote:
This issue was never part of Holden's makeup.
Caufield attends an exclusive private school in Pennsylvania. He spends the whole book avoiding his parents, who he believes don't truly understand him and are withholding something. The only family member he has a connection to is his 10 year old sister (which just shows how infantile Holden is -- he's afraid of being an adult and actually having responsibility).
I think it sums up his makeup pretty well, albeit not in terms you would like. He's a whiny rich kid who leaves school and gets in a bunch of misadventures that aren't all that interesting while drunk. Everything is resolved when his parents get him into a new school and he promises to be better next time.
He's every trust fund douchebag you've ever met. He's not deep and sensitive, he's a spoiled child.
To SFP -- I like Bottle Rocket, actually, but Rushmore wrinkles the premise by making the kid working class, though he's still attending an elite private school and has opportunities most people would dream of having.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 11:11 am to Holden Caulfield
quote:
Not part of the narrative. Holden, if anything, felt unworthy.
I didn't get that he felt "unworthy". Maybe he felt his parents were unworthy of having kids in the first place.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 11:28 am to Baloo
quote:
Critics love this kind of movie, because they too are largely private school educated, city-dwelling, northeasteners who feel that their sensitivity was never appreciated. It is by far the most dreary, yet overpraised type of art in modern America. If you want to know why I want to nut punch Wes Anderson, it's largely for expanding on the Holden Caufield archetype in almost all of his films.
Well that's just like, uh... your opinion. Man.
I completely disagree that that archetype is a scourge on modern literature. In fact, I would say it has led to a far more introspective, relatable character than ever before.
You sound like some 60 year old Vietnam vet who lied about his age to get drafted and came back completely jaded about life and happiness. "whiny rich trust fund babies..." Except the book's true intent has little to do with wealth and everything to do with the displaced youth of the pre-baby boomer generation.
You are too far removed from the feelings of alienation that accompany high school in general to sympathize or even empathize with Holden. That doesn't mean it's a "dreary, yet overpraised" novel. It simply means that you have become too old to relate to the novel anymore and have had your vision colored by the emo movement, the hipster movement, and Wes Anderson.
Posted on 4/22/13 at 11:51 am to Baloo
quote:
He spends the whole book avoiding his parents
But never complaining about a lack of love from them being a factor in his troubles.
quote:
The only family member he has a connection to is his 10 year old sister (which just shows how infantile Holden is -
Holden is immature but its the source of that immaturity that makes the character compelling. His brother died when he was 13 and he harbors deep seeded guilt. That kind of guilt could stunt anyone's maturation process. Besides, Holden sees himself as a protector of children. Again, probably due, in part, to his 11 year old brother dying.
quote:
He's every trust fund douchebag you've ever met. He's not deep and sensitive, he's a spoiled child.
You're entitled to your opinion but that is not how I interpreted the character.
This post was edited on 4/22/13 at 11:53 am
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