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Message
re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)
Posted on 2/26/16 at 12:03 pm to Mr. Wayne
Posted on 2/26/16 at 12:03 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
I could be wrong, but from what his original lawyer said, standard bleach does not completely remove DNA and there would have been trace amounts remaining had there actually been blood on the jeans to begin with.
regular bleach does destroy dna but does not remove the hemoglobin so it will still react to luminol is my understanding.
So yes, regular bleach does totally destroy dna evidence. Hence the no dna found on the garage floor. However, there was still luminol positive substance on the garage floor. It is not a huge leap that this is residual hemoglobin from when they clean the garage floor with the bleach.
1
Posted on 2/26/16 at 12:05 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
But not the removal of blood.
Actually, it destroys the dna in the blood. It doesn't get rid of the hemoglobin that is in red blood cells and thus even after cleaning with bleach, the surface will still be luminol positive but dna negative...
Kind of like the garage floor.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 12:12 pm to TheIrishFro
quote:
so TL:DR - SA did it and the police know he did it. They make sure to arrest him and then later realize they don't have enough evidence. They can't arrest this man and let him go after what has already happened; their department will be ruined. So they plant evidence to make sure they can convict, it's their only solution. Through a suspicious trial he is found guilty. And now IMO SA is in prison for something he did but he should not be. As much as I think he did it, our court system works to prove that someone is guilty without reasonable doubt and I think the defense proved there is lots of doubt with the evidene. I would have a hard time putting someone in prison for life with that evidence, or lack thereof.
You should look up the tons of stuff that wasn't shown in the documentary.
The documentary is a fascinating and interesting film. However, the film is nothing but a totally biased film trying to hop up interest in the case.
How can we be sure of this fact? They left the big gotcha scenes in the movie about the puncture top of the blood vial and the broken seals on the evidence box.
Both were easily explained. Both of these facts were so unimportant, the defense never even brought up these points in the trial because they knew they were garbage, yet the film leaves them in a makes a big deal about it.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 2:08 pm to thetempleowl
quote:
not a huge leap
Yes it is.
Also if she had been shot multiple times in the garage there would be a ton of blood splatter. Anyone with common sense can see that no one was shot in that garage.
This post was edited on 2/26/16 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 2/26/16 at 2:46 pm to CrimsonFever
quote:
Yes it is.
Actually it is not. The leap that the luminol positive material on the garage is blood is not even a leap.
First of all, Brendan Dassey said it was blod. Second of all, Avery himself said it was blood. Third, what else to you suggest is all over the garage floor?
Dassey says it is TH blood. I believe Avery said they had just cleaned up deer blood from the floor and it must have been that. Only thing is, he didn't have any deer meat in his freezer and he only had a 22 caliber rifle, which isn't much of a deer rifle.
So the fact is, both Avery and BD and the prosecution is saying it is blood. The question is whose blood.
So fine. You explain away the blood garage by saying SA butchered a deer in his garage. Odd story. And then you say that he gave the meat away.Then you say he borrowed a gun to shoot the deer.
You start making insane excuses pretty soon. The blood was from the tube, even though none of the samples had edta and the fbi lab test for that is very sensitive. You still say that the blood came from the tube because, even though it has been explained, there is a puncture on the top of the tube.
You say his DNA was cross contaminated onto the car thus messing that up.
The sample that had TH dna wasn't a correct test because it had the techs dna on it and that shouldn't have been allowed, even though everyone is missing the fact that it had TH dna on it. And if they notice that, well the police planted it.
The car found in the salvage yard with SA blood and his dna was planted by the cops.
All of this incredible conspiracy frame job is going down on poor old SA even though there is a tremendous amount of evidence that he did it. It was all done to frame SA. The cops framed him, even though they didn't know he wouldn't have a alibi. You are saying they either killed TH themselves or found her body, found her car, found her key, found all kinds of other things and just planted all that stuff on Avery's property. And totally ignored the original crime scene where they found all of this stuff.
And then heck, they somehow used Jedi mind tricks to get BD to tell who cousin who then told authorities. Only he didn't tell her, she made it all up.
The similarities between the confession by BD and the evidence they found later was just luck. There just happened to be evidence where he said there would be. Or the police planted it.
And oh yes, the bleach stains on the pants of BD, from cleaning up deer blood I guess, right?
These are just some of the leaps you have to take to say he is innocent.
Or you can say he had a thing for her. They, after planning for a couple of days, lured her out there and raped her, then killed her, then burned her body and hide the car. Evidence all ties up with that narrative. It actually is easily understandable. So there you have it.
I think SA and BD both planned this and raped and murdered TH. I think they burned her body right in his burn pit. I think SA hid the car in the salvage yard thinking no one would be able to find it in there.
That makes sense. The evidence backs that up. There are no huge leaps I need to get there.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 5:41 pm to thetempleowl
quote:
First of all, Brendan Dassey said it was blod. Second of all, Avery himself said it was blood. Third, what else to you suggest is all over the garage floor?
quote:
what else to you suggest is all over the garage floor?
It wasn't all over the floor, there was one 3x3 spot on the floor that showed up on the luminol test.
They say she was shite 5 to 11 times, you trying to say she was shot in the garage, where is the blood splatter? It would be on things other than the floor.
This post was edited on 2/26/16 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 2/26/16 at 6:52 pm to thetempleowl
If you believe dassey was not easily influenced by the cops to tell that story you are dumber than he is
Posted on 2/26/16 at 6:53 pm to CrimsonFever
quote:
It wasn't all over the floor, there was one 3x3 spot on the floor that showed up on the luminol test.
Actually there were other spots that were luminol positive as well. The large spot was about 3x4.
quote:
They say she was shite 5 to 11 times, you trying to say she was shot in the garage, where is the blood splatter? It would be on things other than the floor.
I heard somewhere that she was shot while wrapped up in bedding, limiting the splatter. They actually didn't luminol everything in the garage the first time they searched it. They didn't even empty the garage out. They just sprayed the floor of the garage.
It wasn't till Dassey confessed that they went back and emptied out the garage and checked things out.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 7:11 pm to thetempleowl
You obviously want him to be guilty for some reason and are scewing the facts in your argument.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 8:40 pm to thetempleowl
quote:
Actually, it destroys the dna in the blood. It doesn't get rid of the hemoglobin that is in red blood cells and thus even after cleaning with bleach, the surface will still be luminol positive but dna negative...
I'm aware of that, and glad to see that you finally are as well. A positive luminol test does not mean blood was the cause.
quote:
A wide range of domestic and industrial substances that might be mistaken for haemoglobin in the forensic luminol test for blood were examined. The substances studied were in the categories of vegetable or fruit pulps and juices; domestic and commercial oils; cleaning agents; an insecticide; and various glues, paints and varnishes. A significant number of substances in each category gave luminescence intensities that were comparable with the intensities of undiluted haemoglobin, when sprayed with the standard forensic solution containing aqueous alkaline luminol and sodium perborate. In these cases the substance could be easily mistaken for blood when the luminol test is used.
quote:
Kind of like the garage floor.
Weeks later, I'm still waiting for you to provide something to support this other than one shitty link that turned out to be completely unreliable. If you did, I missed it. Please provide that again.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 8:53 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
I'm shocked to see this thread still going. It just blows my mind that people are still fighting for this guy. There are such better causes and deserving people to fight for. He is trash and totally guilty. I've heard he's about to get a new trial though and is going to be released.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 9:19 pm to brmark70816
quote:It's a Netflix series, people watch to accommodate their available time.
I'm shocked to see this thread still going.
quote:Mind blowing is you still championing the railroading that happened here.
It just blows my mind that people are still fighting for this guy.
quote:You should lock your doors, you could be next on his list.
He is trash and totally guilty. I've heard he's about to get a new trial though and is going to be released.
Posted on 2/26/16 at 9:43 pm to brmark70816
quote:
It just blows my mind that people are still fighting for this guy.
Avery isn't who I'm "fighting" for, as much as that means on a college sports board.
quote:
There are such better causes and deserving people to fight for.
I guess I missed the part in the Constitution about quotas on which rights we can support.
quote:
He is trash and totally guilty.
Neat. He probably is guilty, but your feelings aren't relevant to that. You sound like Ken Petersen.
Posted on 3/2/16 at 4:51 am to DisplacedBuckeye
Ok I know I'm late to the party but I just started episode 5 and frick ALL THESE COPS.
Posted on 3/2/16 at 8:25 am to thetempleowl
quote:
Only thing is, he didn't have any deer meat in his freezer and he only had a 22 caliber rifle, which isn't much of a deer rifle.
Dassey was going hunting that afternoon so I'd imagine there were instruments around that could take out a deer....
What reason did Barney Fife have to call in the license plate that he claims was given to him by his commanding officer? He didn't trust him that that was her actual license plate and model year and needed that verified by dispatch?
Why would Avery put her body in the back of her car to driver her the 10 yards from the garage to the fire pit? And why were there bone fragments found so far from the fire pit? Animals don't pick up charred out bones and carry them off.
Why was a key with a blue lanyard missed in a suspects bedroom 4 separate days of searching but magically appeared the 5th? And without any of the car owner's DNA on it. Like he washed it and stuffed it under his shoes for safe keeping. I mean a guy that's spent 18 years in jail and just committed a murder probably would have the criminal intuition to hide those keys somewhere better than in his bedroom under his shoes when he has access to an entire junk yard. Hell why would he even take them out of the Rav 4 after he parked it at his junk yard? And he'd probably not hide the victim's car on his property too.
This post was edited on 3/2/16 at 8:43 am
Posted on 3/2/16 at 8:29 am to brmark70816
quote:
It just blows my mind that people are still fighting for this guy.
Huh? Who's fighting for him?
Most people are fighting, if you can call it that, for the justice system, more than anything else.
Posted on 3/2/16 at 8:30 am to thetempleowl
quote:
Only thing is, he didn't have any deer meat in his freezer and he only had a 22 caliber rifle,
And he was a convicted felon - so, let's not forget that.
Posted on 3/2/16 at 8:34 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
And he was a convicted felon
what felony was he convicted of?
Posted on 3/2/16 at 8:41 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
what felony was he convicted of?
Felonies - burglary, (animal cruelty was probably a misdemeanor), assault (with a firearm), and endangering the safety of another. In addition to the charge of possession of a firearm by a convicted felon at the time of the Halbach incident (which no one disputes), he had a prior conviction for possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.
There are some folks who are innately unable to stay out of trouble.
Posted on 3/3/16 at 12:40 am to LesGeaux45
quote:
I agree. Strang and Buting took a really tough argument to sell (police set someone up) and laid out an extremely compelling case.
Strang was a much better trial advocate than Buting, in my opinion.
I'm on episode 8 now, and this documentary is mind-blowingly good. I mean, just so soooooo good.
I think that the cops clearly planted a lot of the evidence.
I understand that this doesn't mean that Steven Avery didn't murder Theresa Holbach.
I think if I'm on a jury I acquit.
But what do I think *actually* happened? I think there's a pretty good chance Steven Avery killed her. Who the frick else did it?
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