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Message
re: New Netflix docu-series "Making a Murderer" (Spoilers)
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:09 pm to WG_Dawg
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:09 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
I asked like 20 pages ago but don't remember getting an answer....is there a reason tadych hates steven so much? There was one clip after SA was convicted the 2nd go around adn they interviewed tadych and he said something like "good, he got what was coming to him. He deserves it". What is the history there between those 2?
None of this came out because the defense wasn't allowed to push other suspects.
1
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:09 pm to Big Scrub TX
I honestly wouldn't doubt that Kratz put him up to it.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:13 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
I asked like 20 pages ago but don't remember getting an answer....is there a reason tadych hates steven so much? There was one clip after SA was convicted the 2nd go around adn they interviewed tadych and he said something like "good, he got what was coming to him. He deserves it". What is the history there between those 2?
I've seen it posted here, on Reddit, and on another board that Tadych hated Steven, but haven't seen another quote other than the one you reference. But supposedly it's been established that they hand't liked each other for some time. Just don't have a link to document that.
Tadych may have been jealous both because he wanted Steven's piece of the scrap business and because Steven stood to win so much money from his suit. Steven also probably shot his mouth off to the guy, and being that Tadych is violent, he probably holds grudges and is easily offended.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:16 pm to Big Scrub TX
The information reflected in the documentary is not necessarily fact. Its mostly opinion of defendends attorney presented as fact. Here is a list of things that flat out were not happening:
1) At no point was Steve getting 36 mil. No chance. He was extremely fortunate to get 400k in settlement. Which resolved matters of moneys potential owed before the second crime occurred.
2) Nobody was ever going to lose their job over Steve. There was no pressure on anyone in the department at all at the time of second crime. Money was awarded and book was closed on the first conviction.
3) There was really not a protocol for getting Steve out of jail the first time based on a phone call from another county. This was a fairly big systemic problem for alot of people when dna testing was overturning convictions. He was extremely lucky he ever got out.
4) The girl told the police about the confession well before details of the confession or crime scenes were broadcast. She most certainly did not see that information on the news.
1) At no point was Steve getting 36 mil. No chance. He was extremely fortunate to get 400k in settlement. Which resolved matters of moneys potential owed before the second crime occurred.
2) Nobody was ever going to lose their job over Steve. There was no pressure on anyone in the department at all at the time of second crime. Money was awarded and book was closed on the first conviction.
3) There was really not a protocol for getting Steve out of jail the first time based on a phone call from another county. This was a fairly big systemic problem for alot of people when dna testing was overturning convictions. He was extremely lucky he ever got out.
4) The girl told the police about the confession well before details of the confession or crime scenes were broadcast. She most certainly did not see that information on the news.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:17 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
It was proven he tried to hurriedly sell off a 22 rifle to a nearby friend
so how did he cover the blood splatter?
Did he grab a slug and toss it into the garage?
is it that Police and Tadych, each, indepentdently, tried to frame him? Meaning Tadych killed her somewhere else, burned the body, and then moved the remains. And then police planted a bullet that could only be tested once in the garage, and poured Steven's blood into Theresa's car?
Tadych would have more to gain by Steven getting 36 million to frame him.
This post was edited on 1/12/16 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:22 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
At no point was Steve getting 36 mil.
Correct. People too casually assume he would have been awarded the full amount he was asking for. so let's put a 90% discount on it and start using $3.6M from now on. Still plenty enough to get the attention of this podunk SD.
quote:
He was extremely fortunate to get 400k in settlement.
Only because the Halbach case had started. Why are you intentionally muddying things?
quote:
Which resolved matters of moneys potential owed before the second crime occurred.
Um, no. The settlement came after he was arrested.
quote:
2) Nobody was ever going to lose their job over Steve. There was no pressure on anyone in the department at all at the time of second crime. Money was awarded and book was closed on the first conviction.
See above.
quote:
3) There was really not a protocol for getting Steve out of jail the first time based on a phone call from another county. This was a fairly big systemic problem for alot of people when dna testing was overturning convictions. He was extremely lucky he ever got out.
Are you fricking serious? "Protocol" in LE is to listen to phone calls and take them under advisement...not send them down the memory hole. It's definitely true that he was lucky he got out.
quote:
4) The girl told the police about the confession well before details of the confession or crime scenes were broadcast. She most certainly did not see that information on the news.
I'm fuzzy on the timeline here. Please present one. I linked to a long article about her yesterday from 2010.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:26 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
4) The girl told the police about the confession well before details of the confession or crime scenes were broadcast. She most certainly did not see that information on the news.
So you literally believe Avery was able to clean and scrub his apartment clean of all DNA evidence other than a key sitting by his slippers that contained only his DNA and not Teresa Halbach's?
And after spending that amount of time cleaning and scrubbing his house clean of DNA and the garage, he would then burn the body 15 feet away and leave clear blood stains inside the Rav 4 and then move it 100 or so yards away?
I realize the entire story is absurd, but this is the point. It doesn't add up. At least not the way the prosecution set up the crime.
He def. may have done it but they did an absolutely piss poor job of re-creating the scene, which thus leaves a serious amount of doubt to anyone with an IQ above Brendan Dassey.
Not sure why that's so hard for you to comprehend Kratz.
This post was edited on 1/12/16 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:28 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
At no point was Steve getting 36 mil. No chance. He was extremely fortunate to get 400k in settlement. Which resolved matters of moneys potential owed before the second crime occurred.
It's like you didn't even watch the show. He settled the case while he was in jail for the murder. In fact, the reason he settled the case was because he needed the money to hire his defense attorneys.
Both monetary exposure and potential criminal liability were very much at play when the murder occurred.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:32 pm to UpToPar
Literally the past five pages are people going back and forth about things that don't matter. The only thing that matters in this story is that there was no way in hell that the prosecution proved that Avery committed this crime.
Do I think he did it? Honestly, I'm not sure, but with the evidence put before that jury, it's a freaking crime against the judicial system to find Avery guilty.
Do I think he did it? Honestly, I'm not sure, but with the evidence put before that jury, it's a freaking crime against the judicial system to find Avery guilty.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:33 pm to STLhog
quote:
So you literally believe Avery was able to clean and scrub his apartment clean of all DNA evidence other than a key sitting by his slippers that contained only his DNA and not Teresa Halbach's?
And after spending that amount of time cleaning and scrubbing his house clean of DNA and the garage, he would then burn the body 15 feet away and leave clear blood stains inside the Rav 4 and then move it 100 or so yards away?
And not only that, but clean his garage of her blood pool all the way down to the bottom of the foundation cracks, and clean the blood spray of tiny droplets that would have gone all over his various piles of junk, and be so skillful in doing so as to leave his own DNA & deer blood on the floor as if he hadn't cleaned it in years?
Yeah right.
He may very well have done it - but if he did, he did it somewhere else entirely, making Brendan's "confession" pure bunk.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 12:38 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
There is no evidence the potential monetary decision would have affected the officers in any way. There is no motive for them to break the law to frame Steve.
The insurance wound up paying the $400,000 settlement Avery got. if it had been the full $36 million (he likely wouldn't have got all $36 million), then....
Their insurance company was disputing indemnity on the basis that police were insured against negligence only, not deliberate illegal conduct (framing accused persons). If that argument would have succeeded then the county would have been on the hook for the entire amount probably jointly and severally liable with each individual police defendant. They were all looking at going broke and being subject to judgments being enforced against them.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 1:08 pm to tiggerthetooth
So faced with the risk of having to pay Avery 36 million personally if it could be proved they actively framed or went out of their way to incriminate him, the officers decide to double down and double their efforts to frame him. That really doesn't seem likely.
You just illustrated the motive for the defense to accuse officers of planting evidence.
You just illustrated the motive for the defense to accuse officers of planting evidence.
This post was edited on 1/12/16 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 1/12/16 at 1:13 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
That really doesn't seem likely.
But Avery cleaning his entire house/garage of any Teresa Halbach DNA and then leaving his own in plane site inside her car does?
The key not having a single piece of her DNA on it seems likely?
The keys showing up after 7 days of searching, sitting in plane site seems likely and mysteriously getting found by the very two that were involved before?
See where this is going?
This post was edited on 1/12/16 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 1/12/16 at 1:48 pm to Freauxzen
quote:I honestly didn't think too much into that. People act differently in situations. In his heart of hearts he probably knew she was likely gone.
See the comment about grieving before her body was found. Don't most family members in these situations hold out hope for almost TOO much time. It was like 2 or 3 days into the search and he's grieving? Just weird.
This post was edited on 1/12/16 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 1/12/16 at 1:49 pm to Cooter Davenport
quote:I think he felt that someone should speak for the family. No one else was. Avery had SO many family members talking on his side.
I don't understand why he felt the need to be such a vocal
This post was edited on 1/12/16 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 1/12/16 at 2:19 pm to Kujo
quote:
so how did he cover the blood splatter?
Did he grab a slug and toss it into the garage?
is it that Police and Tadych, each, indepentdently, tried to frame him? Meaning Tadych killed her somewhere else, burned the body, and then moved the remains. And then police planted a bullet that could only be tested once in the garage, and poured Steven's blood into Theresa's car?
Tadych would have more to gain by Steven getting 36 million to frame him.
She was killed in his home or somewhere else clearly. The dude is a straight psychopath, look up his history. He wasn't thinking about millions, he was obsessing over dominating a woman.
Tadych didn't have to do much to set him up. He just had to kill her. It was already proven that Sheriff's department would intentionally ignore the guilty party to pin Avery (see 1985). Why wouldn't the SAME EXACT people do it again when they have 36 million reasons to?
This post was edited on 1/12/16 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 1/12/16 at 2:22 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
So faced with the risk of having to pay Avery 36 million personally if it could be proved they actively framed or went out of their way to incriminate him, the officers decide to double down and double their efforts to frame him. That really doesn't seem likely.
You have that backwards. Those officers were about to get hammered and they would be bankrupt. They had every reason to double down, they didn't have anything else to lose.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 2:32 pm to theunknownknight
they didn't have anything else to lose
Avery wins that lawsuit and their lives are basically over.
These cops were local yokels, born and raised. They didn't want to and emotionally weren't capable of moving to get another job. If Avery would have won they'd've been so stained by it that they'd've been unemployable as police elsewhere anyway. Being a cop, and living there, is all they know and encompasses their whole skill set and life. So they faced becoming bankrupt and unemployed in that dump of a town. Steven was going to permanently wreck their lives.
Avery wins that lawsuit and their lives are basically over.
These cops were local yokels, born and raised. They didn't want to and emotionally weren't capable of moving to get another job. If Avery would have won they'd've been so stained by it that they'd've been unemployable as police elsewhere anyway. Being a cop, and living there, is all they know and encompasses their whole skill set and life. So they faced becoming bankrupt and unemployed in that dump of a town. Steven was going to permanently wreck their lives.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 2:34 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Why wouldn't the SAME EXACT people do it again when they have 36 million reasons to?
In fairness, I think it's smart to not overstate any potential award. Yes, he was asking for $36M. It was highly unlikely he would get that much. I think we should use a lower amount - $10M or less. It still makes the point just fine.
Posted on 1/12/16 at 2:44 pm to Big Scrub TX
the amount doesn't matter so much
Obvioulsy they are going to ask for way more than reasonable. Secondly, the suit was against the PD and the city. So any monetary compensation would have been paid out by the city and subsequently their insurance policy. I dont think any individual would be out any personal money, but the stain on the department would likely result in a series of embarrassing forced resignations, ending many of their careers.
that's a motive
Obvioulsy they are going to ask for way more than reasonable. Secondly, the suit was against the PD and the city. So any monetary compensation would have been paid out by the city and subsequently their insurance policy. I dont think any individual would be out any personal money, but the stain on the department would likely result in a series of embarrassing forced resignations, ending many of their careers.
that's a motive
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