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re: House of the Dragon S1E8: “Lord of the Tides”--Official Thread
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:09 am to Yeti_Chaser
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:09 am to Yeti_Chaser
quote:
Otto and Larys aren't going to be satisfied and just stop pushing for war with Helaena as Queen. He has Alicient as queen now but that isn't good enough for him
Because Alicent's children aren't in line for succession. If Haelana married Jace, they are.
1
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:10 am to Yeti_Chaser
None of the people you mention: Otto, Larys, Aemond have any sort of viable coalition to stand against the heads of the three strongest households binding themselves.
Keeping in mind, under the arrangement Rhaenyra offered, she and Laenor would be ruling for a generation already. And their "son," Jace, in theory carries with him the Valeryan name, and as the Sea Snake said, blood doesn't matter, history remembers names. And his name would be on the throne for two generations. The Hightowers move in as the third most powerful House with a seat on the throne, no bloodshed, and the goodwill of both Houses for generations.
I really can not conceive of a better arrangement for all party's
Keeping in mind, under the arrangement Rhaenyra offered, she and Laenor would be ruling for a generation already. And their "son," Jace, in theory carries with him the Valeryan name, and as the Sea Snake said, blood doesn't matter, history remembers names. And his name would be on the throne for two generations. The Hightowers move in as the third most powerful House with a seat on the throne, no bloodshed, and the goodwill of both Houses for generations.
I really can not conceive of a better arrangement for all party's
This post was edited on 10/11/22 at 9:11 am
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:42 am to Bronc
One of show runners cleared up that Alicent did not kill the maid it was only a morning after tea. Per GOT Facts twitter
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:44 am to joshnorris14
quote:
Because Alicent's children aren't in line for succession. If Haelana married Jace, they are.
I don't know. Maybe that's enough for Otto, but it's hard to say, I still think he wants a king on the throne that he can manipulate. He doesn't get that with Jace and Helaena. Larys doesn't give a shite though. He wants war
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:51 am to Yeti_Chaser
Really doesnt matter what either of them want.
One is a questionable Hand that was already deposed by that time and the other was a minor son of a mid major House.
I mean who are they going to ally with and plot with if Alicent accepts the the arrangement?
They would simply pivot to trying to gain favor with the inevitable ruling coalitions, as they would have no choice. All the dragons, the strength of the sea, and the head of the most powerful House would all be united under one banner and family pact. No one would dare stand against them.
One is a questionable Hand that was already deposed by that time and the other was a minor son of a mid major House.
I mean who are they going to ally with and plot with if Alicent accepts the the arrangement?
They would simply pivot to trying to gain favor with the inevitable ruling coalitions, as they would have no choice. All the dragons, the strength of the sea, and the head of the most powerful House would all be united under one banner and family pact. No one would dare stand against them.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:54 am to Bronc
quote:
None of the people you mention: Otto, Larys, Aemond have any sort of viable coalition to stand against the heads of the three strongest households binding themselves.
The 3 strongest houses aren't really bonded in this situation if 2 of their most powerful members (Otto and Aemond) aren't satisfied with who's on the throne.
quote:
she and Laenor would be ruling for a generation already.
What's to say Larys or Otto don't have her killed immediately? Otto wants to control the king. He has that with Alicient or Aegon on the throne. He doesn't get that with Rhaenyra and he won't live long enough to wait for Jace and Helaena. Though even if he never aged, he won't be able to control Jace.
quote:
Jace, in theory carries with him the Valeryan name, and as the Sea Snake said, blood doesn't matter, history remembers names. And his name would be on the throne for two generations.
The agreement Viserys and Corlys made is that Jace assumes the Targaryen name when he takes the throne. Luc would carry the Velaryon name, but again Corlys isn't making decisions right now. Rhaenys is and I don't know that just Luc is a good enough marriage proposal to make her side with Rhaenyra.
quote:
really can not conceive of a better arrangement for all party's
Otto and Larys don't care about all parties and they don't want to finish 3rd
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:55 am to Byron Bojangles III
Daemon clearly does care about his family.
He was actually torn up when Viserys’ wife and son died, he gave the speech at the brothel because he was sorta egged on by his men.
He was actually torn up when Viserys’ wife and son died, he gave the speech at the brothel because he was sorta egged on by his men.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 9:59 am to Bronc
quote:
heads of the three strongest households
This sort of contradicts this:
quote:
Really doesnt matter what either of them want.
One is a questionable Hand that was already deposed by that time
Does Ottos opinion matter or not. Him and Larys are the driving forces behind this war. It absolutely matters. They will find allies, they have Vhagar for one. And we have no idea what all Larys is capable of
Posted on 10/11/22 at 10:01 am to Yeti_Chaser
We don't really have an indication on what Larys wants or what is driving him outside of his status of not belonging in the Red Keep as a crippled second son
Posted on 10/11/22 at 10:43 am to Yeti_Chaser
quote:
Does Ottos opinion matter or not.
In comparison to Alicent, no, not at all.
Alicent is the most powerful person of her House. She is queen, her line cements that strength. If she were to have accepted the offer there is jack shite that Otto or Larys could do about it.
You are imparting far more power to those two than there is any evidence of them having.
quote:
hey will find allies, they have Vhagar for one.
What? No they would not.
Under the offer from Rhaenyra the entire family of dragons and their riders would be united behind one banner and pact. Binded through marriage.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 10:48 am to joshnorris14
Daemon continues to be the best character on this show.
It's already been said many times, but "Say it" was so badass. And when he giggled off-screen at Helaena's quip about Aegon I lost it.
Aemond is a piece of shite. Yes, he seems to be able to handle a sword, but he's a stark-raving maniac with no redeeming qualities so far. I do not like him.
Aegon is cruel and uncaring by nurture. I'm not sure he would have turned out such a little weak shite had his mother actually been focused on rearing him rather than securing the throne for him.
Viserys in the episode just continually broke my heart. He made a tough decision in the first episode that killed his wife and I initially thought that was a sign of bad character, but I've since realized it was an impossible situation and he made the best of it that he could. He truly was the only decent person in the show - though, Daemon's changes have caused him to morally rise in my eyes...which means he'll probably die soon and I'll be super fricking angry.
As for some of the discussions in this thread:
1. I think it's been cleared up by the Behind the Scenes remarks, but Allicent did not kill the servant girl. I, too, thought she might poison her, but it would be poor writing to do it off-screen and leave something like that up to the viewer. That moment was to establish that Allicent can be kind and that maybe she is beginning to wane in her convictions regarding Aegon's ascension to the throne. This is affirmed at dinner when she clearly and sincerely toasts Rhaenyra and publicly acknowledges her claim to the throne. She genuinely was ready to move on until Viserys fricked it all up on his deathbed...why couldn't he die like 10 minutes earlier?
2. I like the theory that Vaemond was attempting to make himself a martyr because otherwise what the frick was he thinking. He had to know he'd die for what he said. Viserys made it known that the next person after Allicent to question the lineage of Jace and Luc would die/have their tongue removed.
3. I really hope Christon "Whiny Bitch" Cole gets merc'd soon...frick that piece of shite.
It's already been said many times, but "Say it" was so badass. And when he giggled off-screen at Helaena's quip about Aegon I lost it.
Aemond is a piece of shite. Yes, he seems to be able to handle a sword, but he's a stark-raving maniac with no redeeming qualities so far. I do not like him.
Aegon is cruel and uncaring by nurture. I'm not sure he would have turned out such a little weak shite had his mother actually been focused on rearing him rather than securing the throne for him.
Viserys in the episode just continually broke my heart. He made a tough decision in the first episode that killed his wife and I initially thought that was a sign of bad character, but I've since realized it was an impossible situation and he made the best of it that he could. He truly was the only decent person in the show - though, Daemon's changes have caused him to morally rise in my eyes...which means he'll probably die soon and I'll be super fricking angry.
As for some of the discussions in this thread:
1. I think it's been cleared up by the Behind the Scenes remarks, but Allicent did not kill the servant girl. I, too, thought she might poison her, but it would be poor writing to do it off-screen and leave something like that up to the viewer. That moment was to establish that Allicent can be kind and that maybe she is beginning to wane in her convictions regarding Aegon's ascension to the throne. This is affirmed at dinner when she clearly and sincerely toasts Rhaenyra and publicly acknowledges her claim to the throne. She genuinely was ready to move on until Viserys fricked it all up on his deathbed...why couldn't he die like 10 minutes earlier?
2. I like the theory that Vaemond was attempting to make himself a martyr because otherwise what the frick was he thinking. He had to know he'd die for what he said. Viserys made it known that the next person after Allicent to question the lineage of Jace and Luc would die/have their tongue removed.
3. I really hope Christon "Whiny Bitch" Cole gets merc'd soon...frick that piece of shite.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 10:49 am to Bronc
quote:
Larys
Where has that sneaky SOB been? When was the last time he popped up? I bet he is up to some real low-down nastiness.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:09 am to Yeti_Chaser
quote:\
The 3 strongest houses aren't really bonded in this situation if 2 of their most powerful members (Otto and Aemond) aren't satisfied with who's on the throne.
How are Otto and Aemond two of the most powerful members? They are both second sons, sure Aemond has a dragon, but he's not the only one with a dragon and it would be something like 1 dragon vs a dozen
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:20 am to Wanderin Reb
quote:
2. I like the theory that Vaemond was attempting to make himself a martyr because otherwise what the frick was he thinking. He had to know he'd die for what he said. Viserys made it known that the next person after Allicent to question the lineage of Jace and Luc would die/have their tongue removed.
I figured he was calling his bluff. Who knows what he would have done but it didn't matter because of Daemon doing the "right" thing.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 11:39 am to wareaglepete
quote:
Where has that sneaky SOB been?
The beast is under the floorboards
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:11 pm to Wanderin Reb
Daemons story arch has been amazing. Young punk who could care less about his family or anything else, to a man who sees things in a completely different way than at the beginning of the show.
I’m sure a lot of men can relate to this
I’m sure a lot of men can relate to this
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:12 pm to BomBayTiger
Yep. Daemon reminds me a lot of Jamie Lanister
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:17 pm to Bronc
quote:
You are imparting far more power to those two than there is any evidence of them having.
I think you're underestimating them both here. To related it back to GOT, you potentially have a Tywin and a Littlefinger. Sure Cersei was the queen but she did what Tywin told her to. Now we don't really have much evidence one way or the other to say how much Alicient is acting out of her own ideas vs what Otto tells her to do. But we have seen Otto manipulating her to think the way he wants her to so it certainly can't be ruled out that Otto would have convinced her later to supplant Jace with Aegon. And most of us never knew what Littlefinger was up to or capable of until it was too late. Similar situation with Larys as we don't know his motivations, only that he wants chaos in the realm.
quote:
Under the offer from Rhaenyra the entire family of dragons and their riders would be united behind one banner and pact. Binded through marriage
I don't think that means much in this case. I think that it's at least possible that the Hightowers support Otto over Alicient, but I'm not convinced it's necessary because Otto could probably still get Alicient to do what he wants even after a marriage pack with Jace and Helaena.
Aemond certainly isn't united and he has the biggest dragon. The Velaryons and Hightowers are both potential allies for him. And the children of Daemon and Rhaenyra could become future allies as well if they want a claim to the throne. Aemond and Otto obviously would be fighting for Aegon but the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all.
I'm not saying Alicient should or shouldn't have accepted Rhaenyras marriage proposal. It's better than the situation we have now, but it does still present some problems. I'm just saying that I think war was inevitable.
I missed these hypothetical discussions. Glad we have a show that gives us these opportunities again
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:22 pm to Wanderin Reb
I don't get where the hate for Aemond comes from yet. In this episode he barely said anything at all. We see that he has grown to be an imposing figure and his nephews are clearly no match for him yet at dinner they provoked him with the pig. He made an obnoxious jest in return and after eating Jace's punch like it was nothing he shoved him to the ground with little to no effort before calling it a night.
He is clearly a danger but to say he is a maniac based on what little we have seen of him seems like a stretch unless you are referencing later actions not yet shown on screen.
He is clearly a danger but to say he is a maniac based on what little we have seen of him seems like a stretch unless you are referencing later actions not yet shown on screen.
Posted on 10/11/22 at 12:24 pm to Napoleon
quote:
I hate The Prophecy. It was to be Jon Snow but the damn Season 8 ruined it
I hated seasons 7-8 as much as the next guy but to be fair the prophecy was true. Aegon Targ (aka Jon Snow) was the main reason the white walkers were defeated. He rallied everyone for the cause
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