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Message
re: GoT S6: E10 "The Winds of Winter" BOOK READERS
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:47 pm to Byron Bojangles III
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:47 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
As long as Jon was alive he had a claim to the throne. It's why Robert kept trying to kill Danny and Viserys
Jon is a bastard by all accounts since Rhaegar was married to another high born in Elia Martel and she was pregnant with his heir. Unless he married Lyanna quickly after Elia died and it was known that they married (which I assume is not the case at all), then Jon could stake claim to the throne under the old regime but he has no claim now.
quote:
It's why Robert kept trying to kill Danny and Viserys
They had legitimate claim as heirs to the last Targ king.
3
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:48 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:Their forces are more than replenished by the large houses who now back them. Anyway, if Ramsay had seen the huve Vale army across the field, he may very well have retreated into Winterfell and could have held off a siege for years while Jon and his army froze and starved or were forced to fight the WW.
She also witholds the letter from Jon resulting in the death of most of their forces as well as a damn giant because who the hell knows?
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:49 pm to Warfarer
The war was over. This was afte the trident and kings landing.
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 8:50 pm
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:52 pm to ell_13
quote:
The war was over. This was afte the trident and kings landing.
Like I said, the war wasn't over when they were sent to the Tower. The war was over when Ned arrived at the Tower but it would be tough to get a raven to let Hightower and Dayne know it is over, even then they most likely would go out like they did anyway.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:52 pm to ell_13
quote:
So Rhaegar is assuming Lyanna and Jon would be murdered by Robert right? Or just Jon? So he sends the 3 Kingsguard with what order? Kill all who approach. Seems a bit much. The war was over. I'd have thought there would be some way to settle things without a fight. They offer to only let Eddard through would be an obvious one.
Jon is the rightful king and the Prince that was Promised. Rhaegar would make that clear to the three of them. They weren't giving up without a fight.
And Ned was a direct threat to his claim regardless. Ned was not going to take up Jon's claim to make him Lord of the Seven Kingdoms against his friend Robert. They were all rightfully concerned due to Ned's honorability, and Arthur in Ned's place would have turned Jon over to Robert. Ned approached the Tower with seven men specifically, hence Arthur's sad smile. As he puts it "They swore a vow". They thought they were facing off with an honorable man who was loyal to his King, and they had to reluctantly kill him to secure Jon's birthright.
This post was edited on 6/29/16 at 8:54 pm
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:53 pm to Warfarer
Did you not read the book?
Ed talking to Dane:
Did not see him on the trident. Did not see him in kings landing. Did not even see him at storms end to lift the seige. The very last part of the war. It was over.
Ed talking to Dane:
Did not see him on the trident. Did not see him in kings landing. Did not even see him at storms end to lift the seige. The very last part of the war. It was over.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:54 pm to Warfarer
quote:
Jon is a bastard by all accounts since Rhaegar was married to another high born in Elia Martel and she was pregnant with his heir. Unless he married Lyanna quickly after Elia died and it was known that they married (which I assume is not the case at all), then Jon could stake claim to the throne under the old regime but he has no claim now.
Didn't stop Cercei from attempting to kill all of Roberts bastards
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:55 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:I doubt it. The Sand Skanks want to invade KL yesterday and I doubt Dorne wants to feed the massive Dothraki army indefinitely, not to mention the huge cultural clashes.
Well, Dany has shown incredible indecisiveness, though, thus the Mereenese Knot - so, landing in a literal pit of vipers, based on Varys' recommendation (if that's what happens), may bog them down in Dornish politics for some time
quote:There's no basis for making this argument.
Tyrion and Varys may even clash over strategy, leaving Gray Worm to have to mediate in completely uncharted territory himself
quote:There's no guarantee that JOn and Dany will unite, especially with Jon calling himself King in the North. Plus, the North is focused on fighting the WW, and Dany will be at the opposite of the continent. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more army chooses to ignore the WW at first, thereby allowing the other, rival armies to spend their numbers fighting them.
Everyone but the Euron-led Iron Born should rally quickly around Jon and Dany once the WW threat is fully realized everywhere.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:55 pm to OMLandshark
That's only true if he married. And even then Elia's children are older. There's nothing "rightful" about it at that point.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:56 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Jon is the rightful king and the Prince that was Promised.
Why does everyone keep saying that Jon is the rightful king? That would be like saying that any of Robert's bastards should have been his heir. To the public, Rhaegar was still married to Elia which means any other children he had wouldn't have a claim and would be a bastard.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:58 pm to Warfarer
quote:
Jon is a bastard by all accounts since Rhaegar was married to another high born in Elia Martel and she was pregnant with his heir. Unless he married Lyanna quickly after Elia died and it was known that they married (which I assume is not the case at all), then Jon could stake claim to the throne under the old regime but he has no claim now.
Targs were known to have more than 1 wife but I can't see Jon caring about the throne even if he does have a claim.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 8:58 pm to ell_13
quote:
Did you not read the book?
Ed talking to Dane:
Did not see him on the trident. Did not see him in kings landing. Did not even see him at storms end to lift the seige. The very last part of the war. It was over.
ok, serious question. Are you fricking retarded? A dead Rhaegar didn't send them to the Tower of Joy which meant that they were sent there before he died which means that the war was still going. Ned making that comment doesn't make a shite because it was followed up by Dayne saying that they were sent there under Rhaegar's command.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:00 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Targs were known to have more than 1 wife but I can't see Jon caring about the throne even if he does have a claim.
I can't argue that but no one mentions that Lyanna and Rhaegar were married to which it wasn't a known thing. A secret marriage would mean that by all accounts he is still a bastard.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:01 pm to ell_13
quote:
Did not see him on the trident. Did not see him in kings landing. Did not even see him at storms end to lift the seige. The very last part of the war. It was over.
It actually wasn't. If The White Bull and the Sword of the Morning were able to make it across the Narrow Sea, they would have been able to gather a massive army to support Jon. The White Bull had ridiculous connections there and led the Forces in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. The Sword of the Morning would have been able to gather up the small folk against Robert. They would have been able to challenge Robert. They were almost certainly the two most sought after men after the sack even over Viserys. They could have prolonged the war for another two decades if they could get away with the right person in tow.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:01 pm to PatDyesPants
Yep. Dead on, as mental pictures go. I also thought along the lines of the LOTR elves, and/or the Sindorei Blood Elves from WoW, when reading of Rhaegar.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:01 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
Didn't stop Cercei from attempting to kill all of Roberts bastards
I think she did that because the Baratheon "seed was strong" and it would eventually validate that her children weren't his. That didn't have anything to do with claim to the throne.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:02 pm to Warfarer
Them being Kingsguard? Thought you meant Ed and company. Either way, they knew what he was talking about. They knew it was over. Which is my originally question. They "vow" to kill all who approach no matter what? Seems too much given that Lyanna died anyway. And what was Dayne going to do with a baby that Ed didn't?
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:04 pm to OMLandshark
Almost none of that is true. Just wild assumptions. Small folk vs 6 major houses? Stop.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:05 pm to ell_13
quote:
That's only true if he married.
Which is true
quote:
And even then Elia's children are older.
Which they were dead at this point.
quote:
There's nothing "rightful" about it at that point.
What are you talking about? The other Targaryens had been dead for a good month by the time the Tower of Joy took place. He was completely the rightful heir to the throne then.
Posted on 6/29/16 at 9:06 pm to Warfarer
quote:
Why does everyone keep saying that Jon is the rightful king? That would be like saying that any of Robert's bastards should have been his heir. To the public, Rhaegar was still married to Elia which means any other children he had wouldn't have a claim and would be a bastard.
I'm saying that Lyanna and Rhaegar were married like Aegon I. He is a rightful legal heir and not a true bastard.
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