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re: Game Of Thrones S5:E10 "Mother's Mercy" BOOK READER THREAD
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:31 pm to jrodLSUke
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:31 pm to jrodLSUke
There's a very strong quote from either Varys or Illiryo where he basically said "who cares if it's a red dragon or a black one" which very strongly implies the Blackfyre theory being true
I just don't buy GRRM bringing in a guy that late and having him be one of THE guys at the end. But he seems like a perfect fit for the classic "false prophet" storyline
I just don't buy GRRM bringing in a guy that late and having him be one of THE guys at the end. But he seems like a perfect fit for the classic "false prophet" storyline
2
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:32 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
is Jon Snow the "Song of Ice and Fire" (presumably the union of a Targaryen and a Stark) or is Dany? Or is some future relationship between Dany and Jon supposed to constitute this "song"?
Or is the Song of Ice and Fire the restoration story of House Targaryen and House Stark?
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:32 pm to blueboy
quote:
Aren't they the same thing?
Yeah this is unclear, at best. Melisandre tends to use the terms with an implicit interchangeability - and it is probably more accurate to describe TPTWP as, perhaps, the reincarnation of the original Azor Ahai - and that the prophecies tend to intertwine but not line up exactly - at least at this point.
Another question is Lightbringer. Stannis' "Lightbringer" did not radiate heat, only light. So, whether or not it is the sword of prophecy is at question.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:34 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
I just don't buy GRRM bringing in a guy that late and having him be one of THE guys at the end. But he seems like a perfect fit for the classic "false prophet" storyline
"Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, wildtigercat93, when you come to play the game.”
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:38 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
Or is the Song of Ice and Fire the restoration story of House Targaryen and House Stark?
Good question - I've always read it as a single concept (particularly once I picked up on the R+L=J theory) - but, you're right. It could be the restoration of House Stark (Ice) and Targaryen (Fire) in the ultimate forms of Jon and Dany - and perhaps a long-term strategic partnership between those two to fight The Others.
Regardless of whether Stannis is dead or simply in Brienne's custody - Melisandre is "supposed" to be at the wall, according to the books, so that has been resynchronized by the show. But what of Davos? He never went to White Harbor and we have no Manderlys, no "Frey Pie" - none of that in the show - so how much of a stretch will it be for him to get on the hunt for Rickon?
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:39 pm to jrodLSUke
or put less delicately "I, GRRM, bit off way more than I can chew and now I have no clue how to finish this thing. Please lord let me die before I have to finish it"
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:41 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
But what of Davos? He never went to White Harbor and we have no Manderlys, no "Frey Pie" - none of that in the show - so how much of a stretch will it be for him to get on the hunt for Rickon?
I've thought of that.
Davos is at the wall and they learn of Stannis' defeat. He is left without a purpose.
Sansa and Theon escape and arrive at Castle Black. They tell Davos and ressurected Jon Snow about Bran and Rickon. Davos is given a purpose: to find them.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:41 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
bit off way more than I can chew
He's admitted as much - that he has all these threads and some have nowhere to go - that's not the problem (just ignore them until there is an easy resolution) - some he HAS to resolve and has no idea how - THAT's the problem and THAT's the source of the writer's block.
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:44 pm to Ace Midnight
Listening to Watch the Thrones podcast last night I don't think Stannis is dead. I think Brienne has something else in mind for him.
D&D are way too overt with visuals of death to have such a pivotal figure die off screen. Everything that happens onscreen has a purpose, screen time is too valuable to waste
D&D are way too overt with visuals of death to have such a pivotal figure die off screen. Everything that happens onscreen has a purpose, screen time is too valuable to waste
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:45 pm to Fun Bunch
What does everyone think happens once Snow is resurrected?
The whole point seems to be to get him out of his vows, but how does he go about that exactly? Does he just leave Castle Black? Does he head towards Winterfell like he was already planning? Does he excecute a couple of Brutus mother frickers first?
Curious how that plays out
The whole point seems to be to get him out of his vows, but how does he go about that exactly? Does he just leave Castle Black? Does he head towards Winterfell like he was already planning? Does he excecute a couple of Brutus mother frickers first?
Curious how that plays out
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:48 pm to supatigah
I don't think there's been an episode with this much speculation over cliffhanger character death(s) since Dallas was on TV
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:48 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:Maybe she identifies as male, you transphobic piece of shite.
The Princess that was promised?
quote:The entire story is. Everything happens because Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off together. Jon is the product of that.
is Jon Snow the "Song of Ice and Fire"
quote:I'm not saying it's impossible, but Dany seems to more closely fit the description. I don't have to force myself to believe that some guys tears and steaming wounds are proof that a character is AA. Dany was literally born right next to the sea during a siege, and has raised actual dragons from stone.
Honestly, the novels are a waste of time if Jon Snow isn't Azor Aha
And again, the red priests seem to be convinced that she is AA.
I just looked up the wiki for PtwP. Mel uses the term interchangeably with AA, but there seems to still be a lot of ambiguity. If Dany and Jon (along with a third person) join forces to form a single entity (three headed dragon), maybe that explains it. AA and PtwP are the same, but different.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:48 pm to wildtigercat93
I've been thinking about that for 5 years now.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:50 pm to Fun Bunch
Apparently so has GRRM
This post was edited on 6/16/15 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:54 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
Does he just leave Castle Black? Does he head towards Winterfell like he was already planning?
With a wildling army and grabbing northmen on the way? Plausible.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:54 pm to wildtigercat93
GRRM is thinking about what convention to attend next, what his next meal is going to be, what shitty movie will be playing at the Jean Cocteau, how he can promote the shite out of Wild Cards and other things no one cares about, etc.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:57 pm to Ace Midnight
That's what I'm thinking. He tells the Night's Watch to get fricked.
He then takes his wildling army and starts to unite the North. He fricks up the Bolton's, takes Winterfell, destroys the Freys, and then marches on the Wall.
In the meantime Lord Commander Stannis fights the Others to the last man, and redeems himself in his death. Jon gets to the Wall as it falls. Dany realizes the real battle is North and makes it to the Wall as Jon and the North are in their darkest hour.
He then takes his wildling army and starts to unite the North. He fricks up the Bolton's, takes Winterfell, destroys the Freys, and then marches on the Wall.
In the meantime Lord Commander Stannis fights the Others to the last man, and redeems himself in his death. Jon gets to the Wall as it falls. Dany realizes the real battle is North and makes it to the Wall as Jon and the North are in their darkest hour.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:58 pm to blueboy
quote:
maybe that explains it.
The dragon does have 3 heads.
It may be a John the Baptist/Jesus Christ type situation - where AA heralds the arrival of TPTWP and people confuse one for the other?
I think we have to have a heat producing Lightbringer to know for sure. Certainly Dany isn't going to be on the battlefield in a warfighting role - so that's why I've dismissed her as this particular figure. No question she may ride dragons into battle against her enemies and, potentially, The Others - so who knows?
Jon seems to fit the mold of a warrior prince more closely, IMHO.
Posted on 6/16/15 at 1:58 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
That's what I'm thinking. He tells the Night's Watch to get fricked. He then takes his wildling army and starts to unite the North. He fricks up the Bolton's, takes Winterfell, destroys the Freys, and then marches on the Wall.
I like this.
Show wise, it's a little awkward after HardHome. Maybe he feels like he needs to unite the kingdoms in time to fight the WWs
Posted on 6/16/15 at 2:02 pm to wildtigercat93
I think he will feel the mountain of his vows off his shoulders and he will know what needs to be done.
Hardhome actually makes it easier for him to see that he must act now. That the Night's Watch is completely lost and hopeless, and only the North can stand a chance, united.
Hardhome actually makes it easier for him to see that he must act now. That the Night's Watch is completely lost and hopeless, and only the North can stand a chance, united.
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