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re: Game of Thrones S4:E2:"The Lion and the Rose", HODORS ONLY (no book readers)
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:13 pm to DallasTiger11
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:13 pm to DallasTiger11
quote:
He had already taken a drink from the last cup Tyrion poured him after Sansa had handled it. This would have happened in front of everyone.
He hands it to Margaery when the cake comes out. Everyone's eyes are then on Joffrey and the cake.
2
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:21 pm to craigbiggio
quote:
He hands it to Margaery when the cake comes out. Everyone's eyes are then on Joffrey and the cake.
Yes, but he had still taken a drink so if the poison was instant, as it appeared, then the wine had not been poisoned yet.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:22 pm to BOSCEAUX
quote:
I'm coming around to Sansa being a patsy but kept safe anyway because Lannisters always pay their debts and Jamie is in debt to Cat for his freedom thus Tywin is in debt for the return of his son.
Another problem with Sansa as the patsy theory is that she and Tyrion are the key to a Lannister ruling the north. Although I suppose pressuring them into having a kid using a murder conviction as leverage could be part of the plan. The Jester takes the public fall and Tywin gets his Lannister heir for Winterfell. But this is yet another motive for the Lannisters and not the Tyrells.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:23 pm to DallasTiger11
quote:
es, but he had still taken a drink so if the poison was instant, as it appeared, then the wine had not been poisoned yet.
Which is why I think it was either Margaery or her grandmother who poisoned it. The first sip of wine after he hands the goblet to Margaery is when he starts choking.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:26 pm to craigbiggio
Okay I can buy that. How close was the glass after she set it down to Tywinn? I'm going back to watch again. 
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:27 pm to DallasTiger11
LINK
ETA: To me that proves it has to be either Margaery or the grandma since Joffrey takes a swig of wine before handing the goblet to her. Assuming it's a fast-acting poison similar to what was use to try to poison the Red Woman in season 2.
ETA: To me that proves it has to be either Margaery or the grandma since Joffrey takes a swig of wine before handing the goblet to her. Assuming it's a fast-acting poison similar to what was use to try to poison the Red Woman in season 2.
This post was edited on 4/15/14 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:29 pm to DallasTiger11
The glass went down and to the left. DOWN AND TO THE LEFT!
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:29 pm to DallasTiger11
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:30 pm to kingbob
quote:
The glass went down and to the left. DOWN AND TO THE LEFT!
I see what you did there and I like it a lot
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:34 pm to wadewilson
Yea I see. If it was the wine, the only people it could have been would be Margaery or Granny. Still would be quite a feat to pull off with those guards standing right behind them.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:38 pm to DallasTiger11
Lady Tyrell is a bad bitch, but I don't see what the Tyrells gain with his death at this point.
The trouble with this scene is that it's hard to read anyone. By everyone's facial reactions, you can't tell if they're nervous about what's going to happen, or if they're disturbed by Joffrey berating his uncle. The only ones that really look surprised are Cersai, Tywin, and Sansa.
The trouble with this scene is that it's hard to read anyone. By everyone's facial reactions, you can't tell if they're nervous about what's going to happen, or if they're disturbed by Joffrey berating his uncle. The only ones that really look surprised are Cersai, Tywin, and Sansa.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:41 pm to wadewilson
quote:
but I don't see what the Tyrells gain with his death at this point.
This is a valid point. My only counter-argument is that no one else close enough to poison the wine really gains anything from his death either, besides the knowledge that the little shithead is dead before he could spread his seed.
Dontos has motivation but I don't think he's ever close enough to the wine to pull it off (though it seems possible he's in on it). Same goes for Oberyn (sp?)
ETA: There is one person who does stand to profit from Joff's death: Tommen
This post was edited on 4/15/14 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:43 pm to wadewilson
quote:
The only ones that really look surprised are Cersai, Tywin, and Sansa.
Jamie looked like he was really trying to save Joffrey.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:49 pm to craigbiggio
Sure, if you think Tommen is capable of fratricide.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:50 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Jamie looked like he was really trying to save Joffrey.
It kinda feels like Jamie is a bit cast aside currently.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:51 pm to craigbiggio
Maybe it was Joffreys little brother. He had the most to gain
Maybe the cup is a distraction. He wad the only one who ate the pie right?
Maybe the cup is a distraction. He wad the only one who ate the pie right?
This post was edited on 4/15/14 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:53 pm to SEClint
It would have been impossible to lace the cup without being noticed. Either the wine was poisoned or the cake was.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:56 pm to DallasTiger11
quote:
If this is the case though, it seems like a stretch that no one else in the reception would have taken a bite of it yet
Why? It was his wedding, he or Margaery would have the first bite.
But if it was Olenna (Grandma), then Margaery would have to be in on it, Olenna wouldn't risk Margaery accedentally taking the first bite.
I think the cake is too much of a loose cannon. I think it's the cup. But not Tyrion or Sansa, they had opportunity but it wasn't preplanned. Olenna was right there and she knew she would be, as was Cersei and Tywin. Tyrion was never gonna be close enough to do it because school boy bitch Joffrey hated him, unless it came to pass as it did.
The necklace is a big deal in all this. I don't see the missing jewel but I didn't look that hard, but they made a huge deal about that necklace. They spent about 5 minutes of valuable show time with Margaery and Olenna THEN immediately went to Sansa and the necklace with the fool.
THEN you have Olenna's comments to Sansa and her touching the necklace. But I don't know when she dropped it in, must have been off camera.
OR it could be the Lannisters. I think that Cersei and/or Tywin are power hungry and fricked up enough to kill him if they thought he would destroy them, which he would have done, he's was a loose cannon.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:56 pm to wadewilson
quote:
It would have been impossible to lace the cup without being noticed.
I don't think it would be. Vegas magicians do all kinds of illusions by getting people to look at what they want them to look at. What better distraction from the cup than Joffrey being Joffrey? Who honestly was looking at anything other than Joffrey in real time rather than the replay?
This post was edited on 4/15/14 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 4/15/14 at 3:58 pm to wadewilson
I'm sticking with my cake theory. The wine seems incredibly difficult to pull off. Oberyn wanted all of them dead so maybe this was his assassination plan somehow with the cake, but only Joffrey took a bite because everyone else was so distracted by the Joffrey/Tyrion thing. But even this seems like a stretch so who knows.
It would be incredibly hard for Granny to lean over in front of the guards and put something in Joffrey's cup.
It would be incredibly hard for Granny to lean over in front of the guards and put something in Joffrey's cup.
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