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re: Game of Thrones S4:E2:"The Lion and the Rose", HODORS ONLY (no book readers)

Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:15 am to
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95669 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:15 am to
quote:

The cup goes from being poured over Tyrion's head to being dropped and kicked over towards Sansa. Sansa picks it up and hands it to Tyrion. Tyrion refills it from a flask that was in front of Cercie. Joffrey takes a drink and sits it in front of Olenna (old lady). Joffrey then goes to cut the pie and while he does that the cup is off camera. After cutting the pie, he goes back up and makes Tyrion get the cup and Joffrey downs the wine. That's when the poison kicks in.


Okay - it is spoiled for me, but I'll do an objective analysis:

(puts lawyer cap on) - the best evidence in Tyrion's defense is that Joffrey insisted on Tyrion serving as his cup steward - that's awfully accomodating for an assassination victim. Of course, it could have been a target of opportunity, but that's an awfully prepared assassin to have the poison on him, just in case.

Occam's razor says it was Marjorey - as she directly fed him food. However, he didn't react right away. Mace gave him the goblet. Sansa handled the goblet, as did Tyrion. Although many at the table would have had access to the wine, nobody could have been certain which wine Joffrey was going to drink. Tyrion refilled the wine from the family table, but, of course he had, pretty much exclusive access to the goblet during that period (other than Sansa). As far as the actual poisoning of the wine, Tyrion and Sansa had best access to the goblet and wine that Joffrey actually drank, while Marjorey had best access to the food that Joffrey actually ate.

Now - as far as motive - there's no one that didn't have a motive:

The fool

Sansa (obvious - revenge, motive and opportunity with access to the goblet)

Tywin (Tommen would be much easier to control as The Hand - and Tywin will likely be dead before Tommen comes of age).

Cersei (would be Queen Regent, again).

Varys (good of the realm - Joff would be an absolute nightmare)

Dany (they tried to poison me, I'll poison their pretender king)

Tyrion (while it would almost have to be a crime of passion, Tyrion certainly had motive)

Marjorey (timing unclear, motive would be clearer if she were carrying Joffrey's son - but she had direct access to him immediately prior to the poisoning - and ole girl, Emma Peel, bought the food - a point she made repeatedly)

Obeyron (he's an assassin - and the Martells want revenge)

Jamie is about the only one I would eliminate out of hand - he's already got a chip on his shoulders for being the Kingslayer - and with the loss of his hand, and significant change in personality, it appears killing his king/nephew/son is probably beyond him.

Now - this poisoning is tricky business - who procured/made it?

This issue with the leftovers - I think it is a deliberate distractor - Marjorey wanted to give it to the poor, to which Joffrey consented (recall, he prompted her to make the announcement - he had to have known what it was) - Cersei overrode that and ordered it to be fed to the kennels. So, I guess we would assume that either the poor or the dogs will die if they eat it, right? This overlooks the fact that they fed hundreds of people at this event and, at the present time, it appears that only Joffrey died a slow, agonizing, painful and very satisfying death. So the food/wine is not poisoned - only Joffrey was poisoned.

So, the access to him is literally a short list of about a dozen suspects - clearly the fool knew, as he tried to get Sansa out before the $hit hit the fan. How involved he was remains to be seen. Sansa seems oblivious, but if she's involved she may have been resigned to her fate and was shocked by any attempt to rescue her.

Other than that - Tywin seemed calm, Lady Tyrell seemed calm, Sansa and Mace seemed oblivious - really only Cersei and Jamie even reacted to his distress at first. Cersei's reaction seems sincere, but she's sociopathic, so I'm not sure how much I would infer from that.

We have a stone cold whodoneit on our hands...

This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 9:36 am
Posted by UMRealist
Member since Feb 2013
35906 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:17 am to
I don't think Sansa had anything to do with it. She obviously hates Joffrey more than most but I just feel that she's still too kind hearted for murder. I viewed that scene where she picked up the cup as her finally opening up a bit to Tyrion.
Posted by Brightside Bengal
New Metairie
Member since Sep 2007
3960 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:18 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 9:27 am
Posted by UMRealist
Member since Feb 2013
35906 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:20 am to
That's really spoilery dude. Take it off.
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 9:21 am
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
156640 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:20 am to
quote:

Okay - it is spoiled for me, but I'll do an objective analysis

And I'll skip over it completely since you know who it is.
quote:

objective

Posted by CE Tiger
Metairie
Member since Jan 2008
41909 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:23 am to
quote:

Brightside Bengal



delete that link. and no one click it!
Posted by lsufan251875
Member since Jul 2008
3159 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:23 am to
quote:

Pretty convincing video evidence of whodunnit.


Warning. Non-bookreaders avoid that link. There are big spoilers in the comments!
Posted by CE Tiger
Metairie
Member since Jan 2008
41909 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:24 am to
quote:

Warning. Non-bookreaders avoid that link. There are big spoilers in the comments!


as well as the link itself
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
156640 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:26 am to
quote:

post your reaction

Mine was pretty much "Yay; awww.."



Or:




Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
37080 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:27 am to
quote:

Scoop


You almost had the sequence right. Joffrey doesn't set the cup down, he hands it to Majorey, who sets it down. A small detail but it could prove important.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95669 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:34 am to
quote:

And I'll skip over it completely since you know who it is.


quote:

objective


But I didn't know who it was when I watched it - and I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holid..(okay, I am a lawyer.)

I was just analyzing the evidence - as objectively as possible, based on what I saw at the time.
Posted by Phil A Sheo
equinsu ocha
Member since Aug 2011
12166 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:36 am to
quote:

post your reaction





]
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 9:37 am
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95669 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:39 am to
quote:

I viewed that scene where she picked up the cup as her finally opening up a bit to Tyrion.


FWIW, I did, too - just trying to help Tyrion out of a jam. Of course, Sansa always seems oblivious and out of it - I wonder if there's something else going on, or if that is just the actress' mode, Lady Sansa Blankstare.
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 9:40 am
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
156640 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:43 am to
quote:

be careful what you read in this thread, non-book readers.

rumor is that there is a traitor in this thread...

Is it fricking blueboy? I know he claims to not be a reader, but dude clearly has read some major spoilers about the show and tries to play himself off as "merely a nonreader."
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
156640 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:45 am to
quote:

I don't think Sansa had anything to do with it. She obviously hates Joffrey more than most but I just feel that she's still too kind hearted for murder.

I don't even know if kind-hearted is the right word...I think as bad as she wants it to happen, she's too much of a pussy to actually do it.
quote:

I viewed that scene where she picked up the cup as her finally opening up a bit to Tyrion.

I thought sort of the same thing. It was sort of like "We can bond a little based on our hatred of this shitstain."
Posted by Scoop
RIP Scoop
Member since Sep 2005
44583 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:45 am to
quote:

Okay - it is spoiled for me, but I'll do an objective analysis:


Son of a bitch.

I just got spoiled.

Was reading an article and accidentally scrolled down too far and wouldn't you know the VERY FIRST comment was some a-hole book reader that intentionally spoiled for the fun of it.



Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
156640 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:47 am to
shite...it's almost time to abandon this thread. Even the nonreaders are getting spoiled and now know what's up with some shite.

And this thread seems littered with readers too.
Posted by Neauxla
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2008
34553 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:47 am to
quote:

I viewed that scene where she picked up the cup as her finally opening up a bit to Tyrion.
I thought it was her feeling sorry for him. But it also gave her perfect opportunity to poison the king after she just humiliated her w/ the whole midgets reinacting her brother's death.
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
156640 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:48 am to
quote:

I thought it was her feeling sorry for him. But it also gave her perfect opportunity to poison the king after she just humiliated her w/ the whole midgets reinacting her brother's death.

If it turns out to be Sansa, I will like her finally..because I can't fricking stand her through the first 3+ seasons.
Posted by mizzoukills
Member since Aug 2011
40686 posts
Posted on 4/14/14 at 9:50 am to
not him
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