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re: Game of Thrones S4:E2:"The Lion and the Rose", HODORS ONLY (no book readers)
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:17 am to UMRealist
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:17 am to UMRealist
Sansa is a shell of the girl age used to be. She has abandoned prayer and has been nearly emotionless over the past series of episodes. I say nearly bc vengeance and anger filled her and I can easily see it as her only fuel.
Tyrion was the cup bearer and frankly, he's too smart to poison the king while wearing that title. I would be HIGHLY surprised to find it was him.
The grandmother dropping the "who would kill a king on his wedding day" gave solid speculation but then her daughter would not be queen... I believe that her being queen was the ultimate goal over killing jeoffry.
Based on how unpredictable the show is it could very well be someone we are missing. But I'm still thinking Sansa.
Tyrion was the cup bearer and frankly, he's too smart to poison the king while wearing that title. I would be HIGHLY surprised to find it was him.
The grandmother dropping the "who would kill a king on his wedding day" gave solid speculation but then her daughter would not be queen... I believe that her being queen was the ultimate goal over killing jeoffry.
Based on how unpredictable the show is it could very well be someone we are missing. But I'm still thinking Sansa.
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 10:19 am
2
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:23 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
ended up spoiling the culprit in Joffrey's regicide.
I doubt it.
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:29 am to RBWilliams8
quote:
The grandmother dropping the "who would kill a king on his wedding day" gave solid speculation but then her daughter would not be queen... I believe that her being queen was the ultimate goal over killing jeoffry.
The timing of the Tyrell move (not their inclination or ability to pull it off) is strange, if any of them are involved - after all, you either win or you die, right? How will you win if you don't get someone from your house with a claim on the throne.
The whole reason the war started was that Jon Arryn and Ned Stark were going to reveal that Cersei's children were not Baratheons at all, but inbred Lannisters - and Stannis should have been king (and everyone would have had to convert to the Lord of Light or die - prompting ANOTHER civil war - I assume one that could be coming - not ignoring the obvious symmetry of the lord of light's fire and Dany's dragon fire, and their obvious symbolism against the threats beyond the wall).
But, for the Tyrells to kill Joffrey on the wedding day - they can't possibly think Marjorey will have a claim before the marriage was even consummated, much less an heir in the oven, can they?
Cersei's motive was more visceral and immediate - she clearly did not want to cede being queen or queen regent to Marjorey - and Tommen would give her several more years of authority, sharing with Tywin or not - but her reaction was also the most sincere (unless it was her continued effort to frame Tyrion).
Now - I thought I saw dead birds in the pie, but initially I assumed it was from the sword strike (I thought I even saw blood) - again, wouldn't it be obvious if the pie were poisoned, that lots of people would die?
And if the entire pie was poisoned, then it could have been anyone and Tyrion wouldn't be the prime suspect? I still think that is a distractor - before knowing the culprit (or culprits) I believed that someone at the family tables either did the killing or participated in delivering the poison to Joffrey, even if unwittingly. A wildcard we were supposed to look at was Oberyon - but he seemed to be accounted for (I kept looking behind Joffrey and seeing the guard, and thought, "I wonder if that's Oberyon in disguise" - after about the third time, it flashed to Oberyon in the crowd and I thought, "How do they know what I'm thinking?"
) Little else makes any sort of sense.
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:29 am to RBWilliams8
Watching the final scene again.
After Sansa handles the cup Joffrey take a drink....before they cut the cake. He then eats some cake given to him by Marjorie. He then gets Tyrion to fetch his wine as Tyrion was set to leave. The wine was right by the grandma. SHe's close enough to do something. Tyrion then gives the wine to Joffrey and that's all she wrote. Now it may have taken time to take effect, but I think Sansa is out.
Its either Tyrion or the grandma. I really doubt it is Tyrion so it's grandma.
Now the why is what is interesting. Don't know much of a motive, so that would be the big hang up. The fool definitely had knowledge based on him rescuing Sansa.
After Sansa handles the cup Joffrey take a drink....before they cut the cake. He then eats some cake given to him by Marjorie. He then gets Tyrion to fetch his wine as Tyrion was set to leave. The wine was right by the grandma. SHe's close enough to do something. Tyrion then gives the wine to Joffrey and that's all she wrote. Now it may have taken time to take effect, but I think Sansa is out.
Its either Tyrion or the grandma. I really doubt it is Tyrion so it's grandma.
Now the why is what is interesting. Don't know much of a motive, so that would be the big hang up. The fool definitely had knowledge based on him rescuing Sansa.
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 10:37 am
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:31 am to Antonio Moss
Btw, the link I posted with the gif evidence of who did it showed nothing but actual footage from last night's episode. I don't read any of the comments for any image links, so I couldn't tell you what is there.
How could there be spoilers from only viewing things that happened on screen last night?
How could there be spoilers from only viewing things that happened on screen last night?
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:34 am to Byron Bojangles III
I honestly wouldn't watch this show if it weren't for Hodor.
#teamhodor
#teamhodor
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:37 am to Burt Reynolds
quote:
I honestly wouldn't watch this show if it weren't for Hodor.
I started this series less than two weeks ago, and have already caught up. Great show.
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:38 am to tylercsbn9
quote:
Don't know much of a motive, so that would be the big hang up.
Well - they don't like him, but that's a long line.
quote:
Now it may have taken time to take effect
That's another thing that bears examining - he was given all these gifts - depending on what the Maesters are going to say as to how the poison acted - who is to say there wasn't a contact poison on one of the gifts? Tywin gave him the sword, knowing he would immediately handle it. He received a number of gifts.
And he was drinking wine the whole time. Another intriguing concept is the "multi component" theory - 2 substances required for the poison to take effect? Maybe a contact and an ingested? So that anyone who just ate tained food/drank tainted wine would be fine, but if they handled the sword, the book or other gifts AND ...
Such technology would probably be an anachronism - but there is enough mysticism in GoT for it to not be completely out of place.
I give them one thing - the television makers successfully packed more content into that wedding, in hindsight, to definitely point you in many directions. And it captures the spirit of medieval times, generally, and the risk involved in being a monarch - a public event like that is very convenient to gather the 20 or so people together who very much want you dead and put them close enough to you to do it.
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 10:40 am
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:39 am to Ace Midnight
Also, since Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen are bastards, Stannis is the rightful King of Westeros. What is funny is that even if Westeros was still using Targaryens rules, Stannis would be the rightful King over Dany since she cannot inherit and Stannis' father was Aerys' cousin, making him Aerys' only male heir still alive.
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:42 am to Byron Bojangles III
So what is going to happen to Tyrion since everyone think he did it?
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:43 am to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
Stannis would be the rightful King over Dany since she cannot inherit and Stannis' father was Aerys' cousin, making him Aerys' only male heir still alive.
Or is he? Isn't the old blind guy at the wall a Targaryen? (Of course his oath would prevent him.)
But, yes, from what we know, now, Stannis has the best claim from either theory - Targaryen or Baratheon, assuming that Tommen and Myrcella are proven to be Jamie's children, not Robert's (as we all know).
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:44 am to Burt Reynolds
quote:
So what is going to happen to Tyrion since everyone think he did it?
Death more than likely.
Hopefully he can somehow escape.
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 10:44 am
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:45 am to Brightside Bengal
quote:
How could there be spoilers from only viewing things that happened on screen last night?
The captions attached to the photos basically told exactly what happened. Then if you were unlucky enough to read the comments it confirmed it.
Posted on 4/14/14 at 10:59 am to Ace Midnight
Anyway, the Iron Throne has branded Stannis as a traitor, so him and Shireen are gone in the line of sucession. If Tommen and Myrcella are killed, I have no idea who would inherit Westeros.
Posted on 4/14/14 at 11:01 am to tylercsbn9
quote:
The wine was right by the grandma. SHe's close enough to do something.
No she isn't, she is sitting at a different table. That screen shot you posted has no depth of field so it makes her look closer.
Watch the scene again. There is a guard standing between the grandma and Joffrey's goblet. She is never within arm's reach of it.
Posted on 4/14/14 at 11:03 am to tylercsbn9
quote:
The fool definitely had knowledge based on him rescuing Sansa.
I feel this way too.
Posted on 4/14/14 at 11:06 am to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
. What is funny is that even if Westeros was still using Targaryens rules, Stannis would be the rightful King over Dany since she cannot inherit and Stannis' father was Aerys' cousin, making him Aerys' only male heir still alive.
That's not 100% accurate
Posted on 4/14/14 at 11:08 am to Burt Reynolds
quote:
So what is going to happen to Tyrion since everyone think he did it?
I'm willing to bet he finds a way out. I love how he is being accused....the guy who didn't want to give him wine....is the guy who planned ahead to give him wine with poison in it?
hmmmmm....noooo
Posted on 4/14/14 at 11:08 am to AmosMosesAndTwins
quote:
I feel this way too.
Not only that - he approached her, all drunk, in the first episode - this implies 1 of 2 things:
1. Nobody pays attention to him, and he has overhead enough to put 2 and 2 together - he knew then, that $hit was going down, based on people talking out in the open.
2. He is involved in the conspiracy, at least in some way.
I'm not sure if it implies that he knows enough to suspect that Tyrion will be blamed for it (is involved in it), and Sansa will also bear the blame - cannot say for sure, but, again - knowing somebody is going to do in the king is one thing - knowing that the girl that saved you from him is going to be implicated and trying to rescue her at great personal risk is a horse of a different color.
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 11:09 am
Posted on 4/14/14 at 11:13 am to The_Joker
quote:
Methinks Jaime is going to be on Tyrion's side
I'm hoping that's enough to keep him alive - it's clear that Cersei (whether she killed Joffrey or not) is going to blame Tyrion for it, and full tilt.
I thought Cersei was done with Jamie, but her interest in the relationship between Jamie and Brienne has me rethinking that...
(ETA: My fear is that this crisis over the death of their nephew/son will be the catalyst for their reunion.)
This post was edited on 4/14/14 at 11:14 am
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