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re: Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness SPOILERS THREAD
Posted on 5/11/22 at 1:58 pm to dawgfan24348
Posted on 5/11/22 at 1:58 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
SW Wanda is regarded as one of the strongest characters in Marvel
Reminder for folks in the cheap seats: Plain ol' Angry Wanda nearly took out Thanos alone, and he had 5 of 6 Infinity Stones.
1
Posted on 5/11/22 at 2:22 pm to VoxDawg
quote:But now for the first time, I’m beginning to question the creative quality of Disney/Marvel. It’s not about personal opinion, it’s about majority appeal.
Well, Fox X-Men and a MCU X-Men would be vastly different.
I have hope, but not a guarantee like it used to be for Disney/Marvel.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 2:35 pm to ThoseGuys
quote:
Are we talking about top dogs are far as popular comic characters? Or just popular movie characters? Because the Avengers books were never super popular. I don't even recall them being on the radar in the 90s. It was all about mutants. quote: During the heat of the comics boom of the early 1990s, Marvel published the bestselling comic book of all time: X-Men Vol. 2, #1, with sales of 8,186,500 copies. X-Men is Marvel's top property and once they are fully injected into the MCU, it should be a huge boost for the movies. The Fox movies were huge despite taking a lot of liberties from the comics. Meanwhile the 90s cartoon is iconic because of how faithful to the spirit of the comics.
The comic book investment bubble is a not relevant.
The Fox movies were put out of their misery and once the MCU came along that was pretty much it.
The individual characters sans Wolverine never carried solo titles for any length of time, even at the X-mens creative peak, while the avengers had WonderMan go for 100 issues.
The X-men movies sold next to nothing merch compared to The Avengers.
The Infinity Saga was a pop culture event, the X-men movies were just chum.
The Avengers are far more popular, because they are more interesting than IP at its core is about identity politics.
This post was edited on 5/11/22 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 5/11/22 at 2:41 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Well part of the reason the X-Men was never on the same level as the MCU was how incredibly inconsistent the movies were. For every DoFP and Logan we had Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix.
Also nothing had been done on that level of creating a true cinematic universe like the MCU did
Also nothing had been done on that level of creating a true cinematic universe like the MCU did
Posted on 5/11/22 at 2:44 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
What was the ridiculous point of the super cartoony animated octopus destroying 616 Dr. Strange's city?
Wanda sent it after America most likely to get her power or to get her to jump to 616
To clarify, I meant it more of why a super cartoony octopus instead of a more "realistic" Marvel villian/animal/whatever. The non-diologue character of an alien cartoonish octopus just arbitrarily tearing up 616 Dr. Strange city is stupid.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 2:44 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Yeah, people are putting way too much into comic popularity.
That helps, but movies are a completely different animal. And the game has changed. Marvel used to be able to create a mega franchise out of heroes nobody has heard of because they made movies with HUGE mass appeal.
That’s the problem. They’re getting off the beaten path. Maybe they’re over estimating their own power and influence. I don’t know.
That helps, but movies are a completely different animal. And the game has changed. Marvel used to be able to create a mega franchise out of heroes nobody has heard of because they made movies with HUGE mass appeal.
That’s the problem. They’re getting off the beaten path. Maybe they’re over estimating their own power and influence. I don’t know.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 3:06 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
The individual characters sans Wolverine never carried solo titles for any length of time
Cable and Deadpool have had some decent runs, and what does individual titles have to do with Avengers or X-Men? There are plenty of X team books that have had good runs. The X-Men are the most popular team in comics and until the MCU in other media too.
shite Marvel tried to erase FF and the X-Men from comics for a time because Fox had the rights. The only reason they did that was to get the rights back.
quote:
The X-men movies sold next to nothing merch compared to The Avengers.
The Infinity Saga was a pop culture event, the X-men movies were just churn.
The second "generation" of X movies was more miss than hit, but Avengers doesn't happen without the success of some of the early Spider-man and X-men movies. I think, like others have said, the lack of success for recent X Movies has more to do with who was producing the movies than the characters.
quote:
The Avengers are far more popular, because they are more interesting than IP at its core is about identity politics.
This is certainly an opinion. If Disney dropped an X-Men teaser tomorrow, it would break the internet.
This post was edited on 5/11/22 at 3:09 pm
Posted on 5/11/22 at 3:08 pm to abellsujr
quote:
That’s the problem. They’re getting off the beaten path. Maybe they’re over estimating their own power and influence. I don’t know.
I think it has more to do that with success, expectations change, and it's impossible to have a new top movie every time out. In a way, they created the the problem by being so successful.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 3:18 pm to JasonMason
Personally, I think they’re just getting too experimental. I guess I can understand why. The same old formula can grow stale.
I’m not sure it’s going to pan out, but I guess I can understand taking risks.
People say GotG was a risk, but I don’t think it was. It was a decent budget with incredible mass appeal.
This is a risk. You have to watch an entire tv show to know what’s going on. The subject matter is fine. Dr Strange is supposed to have some darker elements. But they went with a chaotic story, full Raimi oddness, and having to watch an entire tv show to know what’s going on.
Thor is also going to be a risk. We’ll see if it pays off.
I’m not sure it’s going to pan out, but I guess I can understand taking risks.
People say GotG was a risk, but I don’t think it was. It was a decent budget with incredible mass appeal.
This is a risk. You have to watch an entire tv show to know what’s going on. The subject matter is fine. Dr Strange is supposed to have some darker elements. But they went with a chaotic story, full Raimi oddness, and having to watch an entire tv show to know what’s going on.
Thor is also going to be a risk. We’ll see if it pays off.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 4:08 pm to JasonMason
quote:
This is certainly an opinion. If Disney dropped an X-Men teaser tomorrow, it would break the internet.
Ground repeatedly covered by The Avengers IP over the last decade.
The rest of your post is just strawman.
If the X-Men had better producers? Sure if Jim Lee was drawing The Avengers and Claremont were writing them during the bubble…
quote:
shite Marvel tried to erase FF and the X-Men from comics for a time because Fox had the rights. The only reason they did that was to get the rights back.
Because Fox was damaging the brand, especially the F4, as brought to light to the media by this very board.
quote:
but Avengers doesn't happen without the success of some of the early Spider-man and X-men movies.
And the X-Men comics don’t happen without the Lee and Kirby who did earlier and better work that proceeded their run. The F4 for the team and Kirby did Cap.
But we live in the now, where The Avengers are on the lunch box, trying to give credit to the X-Men movies is the mutant persecution complex but in real life.
The X-Men will get their time to shine under the Avengers studio but as always be second in line, like they always have been thematically in the fictional universe they exist in. It’s baked into the IP to be second fiddle.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 4:18 pm to abellsujr
quote:I'd be willing to wage no one knew who the guardians were i know i didn't
People say GotG was a risk, but I don’t think it was. It was a decent budget with incredible mass appeal.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 4:23 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
But we live in the now, where The Avengers are on the lunch box, trying to give credit to the X-Men movies is the mutant persecution complex but in real life.
The X-Men will get their time to shine under the Avengers studio but as always be second in line, like they always have been thematically in the fictional universe they exist in. It’s baked into the IP to be second fiddle.
Ok. Bookmark it. Ever since the fox stuff went through, Disney has slowly but surely been putting out more X-Men merch. Just wait until they start making X-Men movies, X-Men 97 launces etc. They will once again blow the Avengers away.
The Avengers have been second fiddle since the 90s in EVERY medium until the MCU. Books, Movies, games, tv shows. Once they join the MCU, they'll surpass the Avengers.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 4:26 pm to Byron Bojangles III
Yeah absolutely. But it’s subject matter was not risky. It was actually a brilliant concept. And the budget wasn’t too high. So while it was an unknown commodity, it wasn’t a risky project imo.
Unknown doesn’t necessarily equate to risky. I will say that not having a star in the lead role may have been risky, but they had the Marvel name, mass appealing subject matter, a manageable budget, and a family friendly tone. So I felt like it was less risky than something like this Dr Strange movie.
Unknown doesn’t necessarily equate to risky. I will say that not having a star in the lead role may have been risky, but they had the Marvel name, mass appealing subject matter, a manageable budget, and a family friendly tone. So I felt like it was less risky than something like this Dr Strange movie.
This post was edited on 5/11/22 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 5/11/22 at 4:33 pm to abellsujr
quote:
not having a star in the lead role may have been risky, but they had the Marvel name,
Exactly. It's not like it was the first film in the MCU. The franchise was already in a great place when GOTG came out.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 4:44 pm to RLDSC FAN
When you see “Marvel”, it immediately draws attention. Like Pixar. Or Disney back in the day. That’s huge. I know I had no idea who Aladdin was, but I was immediately sold to see it as a kid because it was the next big Disney animation movie. That’s what Marvel is now.
But like Disney animation and Pixar, interest fades. It can still keep going, but hype and quality can start to fade.
Imo, we’re headed to a nostalgia phase in cinema. Top Gun, Ghostbusters, even Spider-Man is getting in on it. Disney/Marvel has that opportunity with X-Men. We’ll see. But some of these new avenues they’re going down interest me very little.
But like Disney animation and Pixar, interest fades. It can still keep going, but hype and quality can start to fade.
Imo, we’re headed to a nostalgia phase in cinema. Top Gun, Ghostbusters, even Spider-Man is getting in on it. Disney/Marvel has that opportunity with X-Men. We’ll see. But some of these new avenues they’re going down interest me very little.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 4:49 pm to JasonMason
quote:
Ever since the fox stuff went through, Disney has slowly but surely been putting out more X-Men merch. Just wait until they start making X-Men movies, X-Men 97 launces etc.
Someone’s getting big salty.
What you don’t get , is that the most Disney property Marvel ever created is the Fantastic Four. The Future Foundation is Epcot Center/Tommowland through and through.
quote:
They will once again blow the Avengers away.
They won’t have the run The Avengers had, as explained as the IP is essentially whiny identity politics. The core story is the persecution of mutants which wouldn’t happen unless The Avengers, proper, are wiped off the map. Which after the events of Civil War and The Blip won’t happen in story. They will be no government based Sentinels. Maybe an evil corporation based.
The X-Men 97 IP, it’s core characters, wheels (whom they should kill off) Scott, Jean, Hank, Jubilee, Logan, Gambit Storm Rogue aren’t merch friendly like the symbolism of Iron Man Thor, Hulk Spidey BP or Cap.
The SJW heavily themed X-Men are going to be the death of Marvel Studios before they capture the public like The Avengers have.
Because it’s essentially the nuts and bolts of the IPs-The Avengers are heroes. The X-Men are a team thrown together because they share the same genes. It’s not as inspiring or relatable.
Though we do live in a victim society, so I could be wrong.
This post was edited on 5/11/22 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 5/11/22 at 5:19 pm to JasonMason
quote:
Once they join the MCU, they'll surpass the Avengers.
Care to bet? The X-Men (Disney version) will not make anywhere near the money the Avengers have made for Marvel
Posted on 5/11/22 at 6:34 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
This honestly sounds like you believe the X-Men will fail more because you dislike the politics they represent.
In the 80s and 90s you could symbolically use the mutants as stand in for racism to send a message, but in today's climate, everyone from the left to the right is so sensitive that you can't even talk about anything political without making people uncomfortable.
In the 80s and 90s you could symbolically use the mutants as stand in for racism to send a message, but in today's climate, everyone from the left to the right is so sensitive that you can't even talk about anything political without making people uncomfortable.
Posted on 5/11/22 at 6:54 pm to ThoseGuys
quote:
This honestly sounds like you believe the X-Men will fail more because you dislike the politics they represent.
No, it’s because they are a team based on identity politics that they aren’t as interesting. Completely about their tribe. They aren’t about saving the world as much as they are saving their kind.
In fact if Feige was smart, he’d use them as villains. Which they essentially are in the 616
This post was edited on 5/11/22 at 6:57 pm
Posted on 5/11/22 at 8:55 pm to ThoseGuys
quote:A lot of the uproar we hear now, we heard back then too. It was just in the privacy of people’s own homes. Now people can speak while not being fearful of backlash. They can simply log out.
This honestly sounds like you believe the X-Men will fail more because you dislike the politics they represent. In the 80s and 90s you could symbolically use the mutants as stand in for racism to send a message, but in today's climate, everyone from the left to the right is so sensitive that you can't even talk about anything political without making people uncomfortable.
What I find interesting is that comics have repeatedly done this in history. They have injected themselves in the middle of the political climate. The difference between comics and movies is, movies are riskier to attempt these things because the investment is so much bigger.
I’m fine with politics being injected in a story if it makes sense and not forced.
If people feel like they’re being force fed something, they’re going to hate it. I haven’t really felt like that yet, but some things have been close. Sometimes I’ll ask my children if they pick up on this or that. My children are in their early teens. And more times than not, they either don’t pick up on the political reference, or don’t care. This tells me that times are changing and the “society normal” goal posts will continue to move. What some of us older people may see as a political statement, they see as everyday life.
Whatever people’s opinion are on that, I believe this is happening. People hate hearing this, but it’s similar to the way things have always changed over time.
I’m not making a statement one way or the other. I just try to to live my life in peace and encourage my kids to make up their own mind. I wish my parents would have done that with me.
This post was edited on 5/11/22 at 9:01 pm
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