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Do you think it possible JJ Abrams retcons a key death in The Last Jedi? (Spoilers)
Posted on 9/7/18 at 7:45 pm
Posted on 9/7/18 at 7:45 pm
Probably the most controversial death in the whole film was Luke Skywalker's at the end of The Last Jedi. While many of us were okay that they killed him, the vast majority of us were pissed off at HOW they killed him. Had he actually been on Craite fighting Kylo Ren in the flesh, I think we would have been satisfied with the conclusion of Luke's "character arc." But instead they had him die via Force projection, farted out of existence in a gust of wind.
Do you think it possible Abrams tries to right the wrongs done to the fans and bring Luke Skywalker back for a final showdown with the Dark Side? We already know Mark Hamill is set to appear as Luke Skywalker in Episode IX, though most of us simply assume it's going to be as a Force ghost. However, I am hopeful that Luke somehow survives via resurrection or some other crazy Force shite so that he can get the send off Mark Hamill and the character deserves.
I doubt it happens but I really hope Abrams surprises us.
Do you think it possible Abrams tries to right the wrongs done to the fans and bring Luke Skywalker back for a final showdown with the Dark Side? We already know Mark Hamill is set to appear as Luke Skywalker in Episode IX, though most of us simply assume it's going to be as a Force ghost. However, I am hopeful that Luke somehow survives via resurrection or some other crazy Force shite so that he can get the send off Mark Hamill and the character deserves.
I doubt it happens but I really hope Abrams surprises us.
This post was edited on 9/7/18 at 7:46 pm
17
Posted on 9/7/18 at 7:51 pm to RollTide1987
You just didn’t get it. It’s subverting your expectations. But unfortunately you were expecting a decent Star Wars movie.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 7:53 pm to RollTide1987
Who cares
Posted on 9/7/18 at 7:54 pm to RollTide1987
Ideally the movie begins with Lando waking up holding a can of Schlitz Malt Liquor and announcing he just had the weirdest dream.
We then discover that Luke has been away for the last few years trying to help Lando get over his alcoholism.
Bonus points if Lando tells Rey at some point that "I always did want to cornhole me a Jedi bitch."
We then discover that Luke has been away for the last few years trying to help Lando get over his alcoholism.
Bonus points if Lando tells Rey at some point that "I always did want to cornhole me a Jedi bitch."
Posted on 9/7/18 at 9:01 pm to Arksulli
It will take an entire movie just to undo the atrocity that was episode 8. They should make a 4 movie series instead of a trilogy.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 9:08 pm to RollTide1987
quote:I think he does, and after forcing myself to rewatch TLJ, I don't even think JJ has to alter it. I pointed this out in another thread recently.
Do you think it possible Abrams tries to right the wrongs done to the fans and bring Luke Skywalker back for a final showdown with the Dark Side?
Go specifically to the scenes where they keep showing Luke, from in front and behind, sitting on the rock, at the end. The scene where he disappears.
They keep showing him looking out over the ocean, as the classic Star Wars movie plays.
As the music rises to a climax, they show him from behind, silhouette against the sky... 2 SUNS at sunset, and the "ocean" is completely still- the waves aren't moving.
That's Tatooine.
He then vanishes from Ahch-To (the planet where Rey "found" him).
It actually makes complete sense, the clues are there, just lost in Rian Johnson's "cleverness";
Luke force-projected to Ahch-To to wait for Rey (or whoever found the map).
But, you say...
but he could touch things
he handed Leia some dice on the Rebel planet, and kissed her brow. He touched her as a Force projection there, he could do it on Ahch-To also
But Rey and Leia said "he's gone"
they couldn't find or feel him anyway. Snoke couldn't find or feel him. Kylo couldn't etc. If Luke turns the switch off, then "he's gone" to Force users.
But he didn't even want to train her, why the deception?
Yoda refused him too, and forced him to prove his commitment. Just like he forced Rey to prove herself. The physical "training" is irrelevant, the seeker has to be 100% committed and doesn't give up, and develops their own connection to the Force. You don't make someone a Jedi, they become one themselves through dedication...
Yoda didn't train Luke at all, he showed him how to believe in himself, and showed him that helping others- even when Yoda says "don't go"- was the key. When he returns, Yoda said he had done all he could, and Luke was ready.
Luke did the exact same thing to Rey, even 'forced' her to go out on her own, just like Yoda did with Luke in ESB.
The TRUE Jedi doesn't rely on other mortals, he/she acts of her own will and decision, trusting the wisdom of the Force as guidance.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 9:27 pm to RollTide1987
No. It is what is it as this point. To get caught in a retcon game with the previous film I think would actually do more harm than good and make the saga even more disjointed than it already is. Just make the best movie you can make with what you have.
This post was edited on 9/7/18 at 9:29 pm
Posted on 9/7/18 at 9:32 pm to Scoob
quote:
They keep showing him looking out over the ocean, as the classic Star Wars movie plays.
As the music rises to a climax, they show him from behind, silhouette against the sky... 2 SUNS at sunset,and the "ocean" is completely still- the waves aren't moving.
That's Tatooine.
He then vanishes from Ahch-To (the planet where Rey "found" him).
It actually makes complete sense, the clues are there, just lost in Rian Johnson's "cleverness";
Luke force-projected to Ahch-To to wait for Rey (or whoever found the map).
Posted on 9/7/18 at 9:43 pm to Scoob
The one problem with that theory:
Why is he still projecting after Rey leaves?
He’s come to enjoy the scenery?
Why is he still projecting after Rey leaves?
He’s come to enjoy the scenery?
Posted on 9/7/18 at 10:04 pm to VinegarStrokes
If you take in my theory, then TLJ does make more sense (still haven't quite figured out what the Resistance is doing, but it also means something).
Makes complete sense in the bigger story- Luke can't "make" Rey into a Jedi- she either IS, or is NOT. Going to find a teacher/trainer is a distraction from the true goal, of becoming in tune with the Force.
So, Luke(Yoda) tells the student- I won't train you, go home. Test 1- do they quit?
Stay, so they pass the test.
So they still want to learn. Give them some nuggets- play with rock floating awhile, shows it can be done, but is pointless. Test 2- do they want 'magic tricks', or do they want more?
They want more, pass the test.
shite's going wrong in the universe. Jedi are the protectors against evil. They don't call someone else, they don't wait for someone else, they act themselves, following the Force's call.
Test 3- the 'authority figure/teacher' (Luke/Yoda) say: I won't help you. In fact, I'm saying don't go, stay here and "learn"... while the people who need and rely on you are dying.
Leave anyway, go face the evil and save those who need you- pass the test.
Done. As Yoda told Luke when he returned, he already is a Jedi. He made the correct choices. Rey has too; she's not waiting for Luke to come, she did it herself.
As Yoda ghost told Luke on Ahch-To after she left.
Makes complete sense in the bigger story- Luke can't "make" Rey into a Jedi- she either IS, or is NOT. Going to find a teacher/trainer is a distraction from the true goal, of becoming in tune with the Force.
So, Luke(Yoda) tells the student- I won't train you, go home. Test 1- do they quit?
Stay, so they pass the test.
So they still want to learn. Give them some nuggets- play with rock floating awhile, shows it can be done, but is pointless. Test 2- do they want 'magic tricks', or do they want more?
They want more, pass the test.
shite's going wrong in the universe. Jedi are the protectors against evil. They don't call someone else, they don't wait for someone else, they act themselves, following the Force's call.
Test 3- the 'authority figure/teacher' (Luke/Yoda) say: I won't help you. In fact, I'm saying don't go, stay here and "learn"... while the people who need and rely on you are dying.
Leave anyway, go face the evil and save those who need you- pass the test.
Done. As Yoda told Luke when he returned, he already is a Jedi. He made the correct choices. Rey has too; she's not waiting for Luke to come, she did it herself.
As Yoda ghost told Luke on Ahch-To after she left.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 10:43 pm to Volvagia
quote:Who knows, maybe he's checking out Rey's presence. He's sitting at the spot she trained with the lightsaber, and where he taught her.
The one problem with that theory:
Why is he still projecting after Rey leaves?
He’s come to enjoy the scenery?
If you watch that scene, as the music wells up, there 100% IS a moment when you see 2 suns and the 'ocean waves' are completely still.
We THINK it's here
Watch this clip LINK
It's the scene in question. Watch it closely- and compare. Luke's looking at 2 suns, and he's got a pretty wide open area behind him.
Then, it changes back to 1 sun, and he's closer to the cave/rock... and then he vanishes.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 11:21 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
farted out of existence in a gust of wind.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 11:21 pm to RollTide1987
The first teaser trailer for the next movie better be the greatest teaser trailer in the history of the world. Like 10 times the Force Awakens trailer.
JJ is going to be trying to sell Star Wars to a base group that is partially alienated and pissed and partially just disinterested.
I truly hope he comes through
JJ is going to be trying to sell Star Wars to a base group that is partially alienated and pissed and partially just disinterested.
I truly hope he comes through
Posted on 9/7/18 at 11:40 pm to Purple Spoon
Y'know, the more I rewatch that clip, the more convinced I am that Luke's alive and well on Tatooine, not dead.
And nobody from Disney could say a word officially, because it would spoil the big reveal for Ep 9.
I think we were supposed to catch it, and discuss whether he really died or not; but because the whole movie was so messed up, we overlooked it. This isn't to excuse RJ for the bad movie, but maybe a warning to filmakers- you better be sure your movie is well-made, before you try to put "clever" bits in it.
And nobody from Disney could say a word officially, because it would spoil the big reveal for Ep 9.
I think we were supposed to catch it, and discuss whether he really died or not; but because the whole movie was so messed up, we overlooked it. This isn't to excuse RJ for the bad movie, but maybe a warning to filmakers- you better be sure your movie is well-made, before you try to put "clever" bits in it.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 11:41 pm to craigbiggio
quote:
Who cares
Literally millions of people worldwide.
Posted on 9/7/18 at 11:51 pm to Scoob
I hope you’re right, but I’m not sure if your theory subverts expectations enough
Posted on 9/8/18 at 6:51 am to Scoob
Well, either the two suns to one sun is supposed to make it obvious -
OR
One sun fully set
OR
lazy film maker didn't put the second sun back in
OR
lazy film maker had along shot of the setting sun but didn't go back and change the setting sun back into the shorter shot.
Based upon the film he made, I'm thinking options involving a bad film maker are the more likely ones.
That being said, I could get on board with your theory, whether it was real and intention or whether JJ is pulling a rabbit out of his butt based upon RJs mistakes.
OR
One sun fully set
OR
lazy film maker didn't put the second sun back in
OR
lazy film maker had along shot of the setting sun but didn't go back and change the setting sun back into the shorter shot.
Based upon the film he made, I'm thinking options involving a bad film maker are the more likely ones.
That being said, I could get on board with your theory, whether it was real and intention or whether JJ is pulling a rabbit out of his butt based upon RJs mistakes.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 9:36 am to RollTide1987
Better question. When will we realize Stars Wars is dead?
Posted on 9/8/18 at 9:39 am to Tigerstark
Also, just to add - if your theory is correct..
It takes TLJ from horrifically awful movie to just terrible.
There are so many other issues with it. But it could interest me enough in EP 9 to see it.
It takes TLJ from horrifically awful movie to just terrible.
There are so many other issues with it. But it could interest me enough in EP 9 to see it.
Posted on 9/8/18 at 10:20 am to Tigerstark
quote:I think that's the general reception, and the reason so few people bring that scene up.
Well, either the two suns to one sun is supposed to make it obvious -
One sun fully set
OR ...(lots of stuff)...
Based upon the film he made, I'm thinking options involving a bad film maker are the more likely ones.
Standing alone, it's a cool scene and does pose a lot of questions and potential.
If the rest of the film was decent, this becomes a huge conversation point. But because the film sucked so badly, it's lost in the wash.
I THINK there are things in TLJ that are supposed to be deeper, that are supposed to make you think. I THINK Rian Johnson wanted to make a smart, clever and insightful film, instead of just action.
He just failed miserably, and nobody sees what he meant.
Examples- this scene. 2 suns were put in for a reason. They kept panning back and forth on Luke for a reason. It wasn't random, things coordinated with the classic soundtrack. If RJ walked you through it and told you, it would probably make sense.
Same thing regarding some of the really stupid Resistance plot. Those seemingly random "we've called, and nobody is coming to help us" comments.
Or Del Toro educating Rose and Finn about "good and bad", pointing out their own predjudices, etc.
Or, even the SJW aspects, which they beat us over the head with, but oddly always seemed to end in complete failure. There had to be some message in that, like "maybe you DO need flyboys", or "some times you DO have to fight".
I'm sure at some level, this seemed pretty good, deep, thoughtful. But the execution was SO horrible that it all gets overlooked.
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