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Started By
Message
re: Breaking Bad S5E16 9/29 "Felina" IT's ALL OVER
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:29 am to LNCHBOX
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:29 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
I don't think it needed a hero to counter what Walt became.
And if it needs one, it's Jesse - he went from a burn out, drop out, meth cook to a person who appreciates life and has a new outlook (and a future in which to live it). His transformation, while not of the same degree, runs counter to Walt's.
1
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:31 am to Freauxzen
quote:
The show lacked a moral center to counter Walt (it was never Hank, at least not the way they presented it). Or better to say, the show had a moral center available and completely let it slip by the wayside, either to rush the end or because they feared making a more complex character than Walt.
Jesse...
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:34 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
The beauty of the show is that Walter's biggest enemy - always - was himself.
Fancy way of saying good characters are complex, of which Walt was, mostly. This isn't unique to Breaking Bad, and is true of any truly great character.
quote:
He was the protagonist AND antagonist,
But he was at his best when his antagonism was personified by another person, see Gus Fring. Which is why Season 5 missed, for me, no one personified one side or the other. Everyone else was kind of just, there. And his internal conflict, while strong, wasn't THAT good, especially because he went off script multiple times (see every time he didn't "break bad" in Season 5).
quote:
although it can be argued that Jesse - particularly once he was in custody of Jack and Todd was the "protagonist" for the final act of this.
Jesse, through midway Season 4, had a great bead on personifying Walt's "good," in the final arc of the show. There was a much better story to tell than making Jesse an addict, AGAIN. That was the sham.
Jesse didn't need to win or die, but he needed to be the wall to which Walt's final motivations are plastered against.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:36 am to The_Joker
quote:
Jesse...
Nope. Not enough there. Sadly, he was the option that they just bypassed.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:36 am to Freauxzen
No where left to crawl
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:36 am to The_Joker
quote:
The show lacked a moral center to counter Walt (it was never Hank, at least not the way they presented it). Or better to say, the show had a moral center available and completely let it slip by the wayside, either to rush the end or because they feared making a more complex character than Walt.
quote:
Jesse...
Eh.. maybe before he killed Gale. After that his lines were forever blurred .. making him incapable of truly carrying the light of moral authority.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:37 am to The_Joker
Except Jesse's character went to shite in the second half of the season. He did nothing memorable except cry.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:37 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
I don't think the show needed a "hero" in the way you're using it.
I never used the word "hero."
quote:
The show was all about Walt's journey going from a boring HS teacher with cancer to Heisenberg, and all of the shite that transformation caused. I don't think it needed a hero to counter what Walt became.
It certainly needed something to counter Walt, again, IO never said "hero."
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:39 am to Freauxzen
You sure about that?
quote:
but they weren't the heroes of the show (which I think was a major failure of the show as well).
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:41 am to Freauxzen
quote:
It certainly needed something to counter Walt
It did not need anything that it did not already have.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:42 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
You sure about that?
quote:
but they weren't the heroes of the show (which I think was a major failure of the show as well).
Right, I used that in denial of a claim, not in affirmation of what I am saying. And if you read it that way, I didn't intend to because that's not what I mean if you read more closely.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:43 am to CptRusty
quote:
It did not need anything that it did not already have.
Because Breaking Bad is infallible. We get it.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:43 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Right, I used that in denial of a claim, not in affirmation of what I am saying. And if you read it that way, I didn't intend to because that's not what I mean if you read more closely.
I read what you wrote just fine. You think there needed to be an antithesis to Walt's arc. I disagree.
ETA: ANd what is it with this board and telling me I'm not reading things closely enough? It's kinda funny.
This post was edited on 9/30/13 at 11:46 am
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:47 am to Freauxzen
No. Because you're "Contrarian Guy" who has to make asinine arguments to show off how smart you think you are. We get it. 
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:48 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Which is why Season 5 missed, for me, no one personified one side or the other. Everyone else was kind of just, there.
I'll concede to a point that - it was clear that they wanted there to be a malevolent villain - again following the pattern of someone with whom Walt does business, Tuco -> Gus -> Declan, etc., but the more important aspect to this final season is the family conflict with Hank/Marie, the splintering of his immediate family (again), AND Walt's final focus on making right whatever it was possible for him to make right (after all, he broke everything - ultimately it being all Hank's fault after all - even Mrs. Midnight admitted this at the birthday/ride along offer part).
This combination of Lydia, Jack and Todd did make for some interesting internal interactions and I think that was worth not having a clear "villain" in the final act, because, while a stronger, more clear villain would have made the final act more interesting, I don't think it is required - Heisenberg is the antagonist, if you want to think about it that way - Heisenberg and what remains of his organization (Jack, Todd and Co.) - Walt's professional family finished off his actual one and he had to return the favor.
When he got back to the house and retrieved the ricin - he saw Heisenberg scrawled on the wall - think of that as Heisenberg's signature - "I did this. I am the one that knocks. I am the danger." But, he sees his reflection, he doesn't look much like Heisenberg at all - he doesn't look much like Walter, either, but definitely not Heisenberg.
Just my take...
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:50 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
You think there needed to be an antithesis to Walt's arc. I disagree.
Oversimplifying, but sure. And ok.
quote:
ETA: ANd what is it with this board and telling me I'm not reading things closely enough? It's kinda funny.
I didn't mean like "Hey idiot, read closer," not at all.
I just meant, any post where I really describe what the show missed and why Jesse sucked as a character in the end, it wasn't about him riding in like a hero to save the day or anything. That's certainly not what the show needed, and that's what "hero" implies.
(Although, I think a nice TWIST to represent this is that contrasted with throwing money out of a car window, Jesse is the one who found a way to take care of Walt's family because he feels responsible that he signed Walt up for this in the first place. So maybe part of Season 5 (in a super reorganized narrative) was Walt going crazy because Jesse does what Walt was trying to do the entire time, take better of his family. Maybe this is what spurs along a much stronger conflict between Walt and Jesse. Just thinking outside of the box.)
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:51 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Because Breaking Bad is infallible. We get it.
Oh hey freauxzen is here to pick apart an immensely popular show with his armchair critiques. Thank Christ.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:51 am to stout
quote:
stout
vince did say everything that happens in the show has already been shown.
that's a foreshadow picture of him dead from 2 seasons back. damn thats awesome.
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:51 am to CptRusty
quote:
Because you're "Contrarian Guy"
You clearly don't know my past on watching BB in the first place.
quote:
who has to make asinine arguments to show off how smart you think you are.
Or my posts.
quote:
We get it.
"I'm angry, SOMEONE IS CRITICAL OF BREAKING BAD!!!!"
Posted on 9/30/13 at 11:52 am to St Augustine
quote:
Oh hey freauxzen is here to pick apart an immensely popular show with his armchair critiques. Thank Christ.
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