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re: Batman Begins and The Dark Knight
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:44 pm to RollTide1987
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:44 pm to RollTide1987
Personally, I prefer the Dark Knight but I must admit that Begins is up there among my top 3-5 favorite comic/superhero movies. It has an excellent story imo really explaining Bruce Wayne's background better and two new, well-crafted villains that we hadn't seen on the big screen yet. I'm also a big fan of how much the mob and major mob bosses are focused on in the Nolanverse.
If TDKR is as good as reviews are saying, this trilogy goes down as one of the all time greats along with LOTR, Star Wars, Godfather, etc.
If TDKR is as good as reviews are saying, this trilogy goes down as one of the all time greats along with LOTR, Star Wars, Godfather, etc.
0
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:44 pm to DanglingFury
quote:
I don't think even most Batman fans would agree with that.
I would. Ra's al ghul is batman's physical equal (in most portrayals). His intellectual equal (he's amassed 600 years of wisdom) and has nearly infinite resources at his disposal. The Lazarus pit has driven him mad and I think that makes him interesting. He has somewhat good intentions through horrifying and nefarious means.
I've always thought of him as a somewhat cynical and maniacal Bruce Wayne would have been like and I think BB (though IMO not even close to as great as the dark knight) does a great job of illustrating that
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:46 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Please name one aside from the Joker. He's clearly his second greatest foe.
Possibly bane but I still agree Ra's is #2 in the rogues gallery
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:47 pm to sicboy
quote:
But it did reinforce my belief that Liam Neeson is a very overrated action star. Was watching some of the fight scenes, especially when Bruce is training with him, and I have no doubt now that Jason Bourne would wipe the floor with him
Ever seen Rob Roy?
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:48 pm to CocomoLSU
fwiw I think ryno trolling every thread with really unfunny jokes is more annoying than this kid
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:49 pm to CGB Spender
quote:
Possibly bane but I still agree Rhas is #2 in the rogues gallery
I know this is only a sample size of two, but I guess I underestimated Ra's cache among the super Batman fans.
I'm anxiously waiting OML's rip on me, which I'm sure he'll craft when gets back on...
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:56 pm to DanglingFury
quote:
was more along the lines of Heat than a superhero movie. I think you could easily do that with a character like the Riddler vs. Ra's. If they have something like the Lazarus Pit in TDKR, I wouldn't be a fan.
Agreed but I don't want to see the same film twice. I already saw TDK. I don't want to see TDK minus joker insert riddler
BB and TDK are completely different types of films and I imagine TDKR will be different from both of them as well. I like that about this trilogy.
BB will probably be the weakest if TDKR is as good as advertised but I do think it is an important and worthy entry. I think it will probably become even stronger with the completetion of the trilogy
Bruce Wayne changes physically and mentally during the trilogy and I love seeing the beginning. i wasn't a huge fan of BB until I saw TDK and how BB fits within this awesome Nolan universe
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 7/17/12 at 12:57 pm to DanglingFury
I think in mainstream America, Ra's isn't on most peoples radar. As far as the comics go, Ra's is one of the most menacing figures in the DC universe
I enjoy riddler, penguin et al maybe more because they are more classic villains but when ra's appears that means shite is serious and there is something large at stake
quote:
I know this is only a sample size of two, but I guess I underestimated Ra's cache among the super Batman fans.
I enjoy riddler, penguin et al maybe more because they are more classic villains but when ra's appears that means shite is serious and there is something large at stake
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:01 pm to CGB Spender
quote:
Rhas is one of the most menacing figures in the DC universe
Bigtime. He was a bigger deal than even the Joker for some periods of time over the last decade or so. I mean that in the respect that the Joker was over used and watered down at points but a Rhas appearance was still worthy of a pants pissing.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:05 pm to Murray
I like that they are bringing
Spoilers
Back The league of shadows. Ra's organization is too dangerous to be eliminated simply by killing Ra's and beating up one truckload of his assassins. It's a far reaching and powerful organization and will be a dangerous threat to batman especially with talia and bane in the fold
ETA: ign ranked ra's as #7 in their top 100 comic book villains with only the joker ahead of him.
Spoilers
Back The league of shadows. Ra's organization is too dangerous to be eliminated simply by killing Ra's and beating up one truckload of his assassins. It's a far reaching and powerful organization and will be a dangerous threat to batman especially with talia and bane in the fold
ETA: ign ranked ra's as #7 in their top 100 comic book villains with only the joker ahead of him.
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:18 pm to DanglingFury
quote:
I know this is only a sample size of two, but I guess I underestimated Ra's cache among the super Batman fans.
Ra's is definitely one of Batman's top 2-3 villains. Not to say he's one of my favorite or anything, but he's still more dangerous than most of the other villains.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:31 pm to RollTide1987
Yep, BB was my favorite!
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:33 pm to F machine
As a Batman fan, I would argue that there are four essential rogues that must be used to flesh out your Batman character if you want to call your films definitive:
1. Joker
2. Ra's Al Ghul
3. Two-Face
4. Catwoman
Christopher Nolan has done all four of those and (if the reviews for the third film are any indication) has done them well. The Riddler and Penguin are pieces of nostalgia left over from the 1960s Batman TV series. In recent years, they have diminished in importance and have become secondary villains in the current continuity. In the 21st Century, Ra's Al Ghul is more important to the Batman mythos than the two aforementioned characters. All four of the characters I have listed represent four different extremes that Batman could become if he took his gig too far. That's what makes them the most interesting and essential rogues in Batman's universe. You won't find a similar paradox with The Riddler, Penguin, Clayface, or Killer Croc.
1. Joker
2. Ra's Al Ghul
3. Two-Face
4. Catwoman
Christopher Nolan has done all four of those and (if the reviews for the third film are any indication) has done them well. The Riddler and Penguin are pieces of nostalgia left over from the 1960s Batman TV series. In recent years, they have diminished in importance and have become secondary villains in the current continuity. In the 21st Century, Ra's Al Ghul is more important to the Batman mythos than the two aforementioned characters. All four of the characters I have listed represent four different extremes that Batman could become if he took his gig too far. That's what makes them the most interesting and essential rogues in Batman's universe. You won't find a similar paradox with The Riddler, Penguin, Clayface, or Killer Croc.
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:42 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
That's what makes the most interesting and essential rogues in Batman's universe. You won't find a similar paradox with The Riddler, Penguin, Clayface, or Killer Croc.
I'm not so sure you don't find a simialr paradox with Penguin or Killer Croc. Penguin is definitely something Batman could have become since many iterations of Penguin having him being born into a rich family. Also you can see Croc as being what Batman would be if he lost his mind and totally became a destructive machine.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:49 pm to F machine
quote:
Penguin is definitely something Batman could have become since many iterations of Penguin having him being born into a rich family.
I don't find a similar paradox between Penguin and Batman because Penguin is a balding, short man who has very little physical strength whatsoever, and uses other villains from the Batman comics to do his dirty work for him. No real threat there. And Killer Croc is also not a paradox because the dude is a human crocodile.
This post was edited on 7/17/12 at 1:50 pm
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:54 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I don't find a similar paradox between Penguin and Batman because Penguin is a balding, short man who has very little physical strength whatsoever, and uses other villains from the Batman comics to do his dirty work for him
Joker is a thin, rail of a man who doesn't have that much physical strength and often manipulates people into doing his dirty work. Guess he doesn't compare to Batman either. Penguin can be a paradox because he is definitely something Bruce could have turned into, especially with no guidance from his parents.
And Croc can definitely be compared to the rage in Batman. Just because they don't physically look alike doesn't mean they can't be a paradox of each other.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:58 pm to F machine
I agree with the list of four
Joker
Dent
Kyle
Ra's
But the reasoning is a little too much. Batman begins this morning on the dark knight now. I haven't watched either in at least a year and a half. Only 10 minutes into TDK and it is definitely worthy of its praise and back to the point I this thread
Is superior to batman begins and probably will be superior to TDKR
In a good trilogy, the second act is usually the best
Joker
Dent
Kyle
Ra's
But the reasoning is a little too much. Batman begins this morning on the dark knight now. I haven't watched either in at least a year and a half. Only 10 minutes into TDK and it is definitely worthy of its praise and back to the point I this thread
Is superior to batman begins and probably will be superior to TDKR
In a good trilogy, the second act is usually the best
Posted on 7/17/12 at 1:59 pm to F machine
quote:
I'm not so sure you don't find a simialr paradox with Penguin or Killer Croc. Penguin is definitely something Batman could have become since many iterations of Penguin having him being born into a rich family. Also you can see Croc as being what Batman would be if he lost his mind and totally became a destructive machine.
Yeah, I was just about to post something similiar to this.
Batman chose a Bat to strike fear into the heart of criminals/Scarecrow is obsessed with examining and exposing peoples greatest fears.
Batman entire mission is inspired by the death of his parents/Freeze's only goal in life is to ultimately revive his frozen, dead wife.
There's potential with most of the big name villains.
I'm glad Nolan chose the enemies that he chose but I wouldn't be so quick to disregard the majority of Batmans Rogues Gallery.
Talia Al Ghul is an epic adversary in the books current run where traditionally she was a one trick pony(her love for Batman would always outrank her loyalty to her father).
Posted on 7/17/12 at 2:09 pm to Murray
I wouldn't say I'm disregarding the rogues gallery of Batman. Every Batman villain brings something unique and different to the table. But it is my opinion that, if you are going for a realistic interpretation of Batman, the four villains I have listed are probably the ones you would want to use first. I love Mr. Freeze. Batman: Sub-Zero is one of my favorite movies from the animated continuity of the character. I think a good director will one day be able to do his character justice in a more fantastical version of Gotham City. But I don't think he'd fit in the Nolan world and, while he is awesome, I don't think he's as important as the four characters I listed a few posts ago.
Posted on 7/17/12 at 2:14 pm to Murray
quote:
Batman Begins - The Will To Act
By far my favorite scene from the first two films. When the score started up with them fighting on the ice it gave me chill bumps. It was a true WTF moment in a good sense. I couldnt get over how well it was put together. From the cinematography, the acting, the score, and even the editing was flawless to me. I went into the movie with no expectations and walked out being in my top 3. As for TDK, I liked it, but it was a bit long and drawn out for me. It seemed they tried to put two movies in one. Had too much going on and it didnt flow like BB did. I would watch Begins before TDK any day of the week. With the reviews so far for Rises, it seems they have hit a homerun and will probably overtake TDK in total gross sales.
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