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At this point, is GoT’s story a tragedy? Is there any other way to read it?
Posted on 5/18/19 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 5/18/19 at 1:00 pm
As a starting point, I tend to think of things from Tyrion’s point of view. And this post is based on the idea that the character arc conclusions in the tv show are mostly accurate. Tyrion seems like the best overall point of view of the whole story because of the breadth of things he’s seen. (Maybe that’s a bit of recency bias.) You have the entire gamut of human beings in his lifespan: a manipulative father and murderous sister, a loved and almost-redeemed brother who can’t quite take the final step from his addiction, a high-minded-Targaryen-queen-turned-tyrant, a treacherous eunuch with the realms interests at heart, and the best man he knows (Jon Snow), who by rights should have the throne but doesn’t want it. Overall, the story appears to me to be a tragedy that’s is based on the idea that humans, for all their high minded beliefs, just on average can’t overcome their human needs and emotions, and the social pressures of their situation.
I think the hardest thing for me to reconcile is that GRRMs characters are so fricking believeable. I tend to be an optimistic dude and it’s easy to want a *mostly* happy ending. But this is not a happy ending. I guess this is the bittersweet one we were promised though.
Do you think GRRMs conclusion is correct? Are humans unable to overcome their circumstances and emotions? While I don’t think that means that everyone’s life is going to be a bad experience, I have a hard time disagreeing about people in general. I feel history bears this out. Is that terrible?
I think the hardest thing for me to reconcile is that GRRMs characters are so fricking believeable. I tend to be an optimistic dude and it’s easy to want a *mostly* happy ending. But this is not a happy ending. I guess this is the bittersweet one we were promised though.
Do you think GRRMs conclusion is correct? Are humans unable to overcome their circumstances and emotions? While I don’t think that means that everyone’s life is going to be a bad experience, I have a hard time disagreeing about people in general. I feel history bears this out. Is that terrible?
Posted on 5/18/19 at 1:05 pm to gorillacoco
GRRM has said many times he wants the ending to be bittersweet and tragic.
Posted on 5/18/19 at 1:24 pm to gorillacoco
Seasons 5, 7, and 8 are tragedies
Posted on 5/18/19 at 5:04 pm to gorillacoco
id not only be shocked, but a little disappointed if this show decided at the conclusion to suddenly believe in happy endings.
Posted on 5/18/19 at 5:40 pm to gorillacoco
Well, the Night King didn't wipe out all humanity on Westeros. That's kind of a happy ending.
To be honest, once they won that battle, I didn't much care much about what happened. It all kinds if pales in comparison, and I didn't really have a favorite to rule.
To be honest, once they won that battle, I didn't much care much about what happened. It all kinds if pales in comparison, and I didn't really have a favorite to rule.
Posted on 5/18/19 at 5:48 pm to Methuselah
The Night King at least recruits you into his undead army after he's murdered you. Dany turns your arse to ash.
Night King > Dany
Night King > Dany
Posted on 5/18/19 at 5:52 pm to gorillacoco
One of the things I’ve started to think back on with Tyrion, is the past two seasons, this is really the first time he has really made decisions somewhat selflessly. He’s always been able to outthink people because for the most part as long as he is focused on whatever needs to be done to make sure he ends up on top. This and last season, he has been trying to save the people while the people he is trying to outthink don’t care about them. That had been key to him being “outplayed”.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 5:28 am to gorillacoco
The writing is a tragedy that’s for sure.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:29 am to Dr RC
quote:
GRRM has said many times he wants the ending to be bittersweet and tragic.
I get that that's been his bread and butter throughout the show but I don't get why he wouldn't make a satisfying ending. Just to give his audience some kind of closure.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 8:47 am to philly444
quote:
GRRM has said many times he wants the ending to be bittersweet and tragic.
I get that that's been his bread and butter throughout the show but I don't get why he wouldn't make a satisfying ending. Just to give his audience some kind of closure.
Bittersweet and tragic can’t also be a satisfying end?
Posted on 5/19/19 at 9:30 am to Dr RC
quote:
GRRM has said many times he wants the ending to be bittersweet and tragic.
I definitely heard ‘bittersweet’ but it’s just bitter as it stands right now. New tyrant queen willing to murder everyone, no one to check her power.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 9:38 am to gorillacoco
quote:
New tyrant queen willing to murder everyone, no one to check her power.
I’ll bet her power gets checked tonight.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 9:38 am to gorillacoco
quote:
Overall, the story appears to me to be a tragedy that’s is based on the idea that humans, for all their high minded beliefs, just on average can’t overcome their human needs and emotions, and the social pressures of their situation.
I think the hardest thing for me to reconcile is that GRRMs characters are so fricking believeable. I tend to be an optimistic dude and it’s easy to want a *mostly* happy ending. But this is not a happy ending. I guess this is the bittersweet one we were promised though.
Do you think GRRMs conclusion is correct? Are humans unable to overcome their circumstances and emotions? While I don’t think that means that everyone’s life is going to be a bad experience, I have a hard time disagreeing about people in general. I feel history bears this out. Is that terrible?
I thought it was a well written post up to this point. I think you’re diving waaaaaaaay too deep into the story now. He’s a screenwriter and a damn good one...not a philosopher. There are no philosophical arguments throughout the books. He’s just telling a story to entertain people, and it’s obviously worked impeccably considering the popularity this show swelled to this season.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 10:09 am to gorillacoco
It's just a bad exercise in nihilism at this point
Posted on 5/19/19 at 12:56 pm to memphis tiger
Well if this is the bittersweet and tragic ending he had in mind, then no it's not satisfying.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 1:07 pm to memphis tiger
The Scouring of the Shire
Posted on 5/19/19 at 1:10 pm to philly444
Except his ending will make more sense since it’ll be more fleshed out and gradual and not rushed like this show was. But than again his books may never come out because it would have to be fleshed out and gradual.
Posted on 5/19/19 at 3:36 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Except his ending will make more sense since it’ll be more fleshed out and gradual and not rushed like this show was. But than again his books may never come out because it would have to be fleshed out and gradual.
He’s not going to finish
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