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Message
An issue i have with timeloop movies (Groundhog Day/Palm Springs)
Posted on 7/14/20 at 9:09 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 9:09 pm
In all of these movies, the character stuck in the time loop wakes up the same day physically unaltered by the previously lived versions of that day. They dont age. They cant work out in a way that builds on itself. They dont carry forth injuries...etc. etc. etc.
EXCEPT...they remember the other days. Theyve acquired knowledge. Skills. Memories. Talents.
These are all physical changes in the brain. Neural pathways being created. Synapse shortcuts. Treating the brain different than say, the biceps or the eyes is very inconsistent.
Now you might say the brain is the only thing allowed to change. Well then it would age. Bill Murray would be riddled with dementia. Pooping himself.
Disclaimer:
In regards to: "its just a movie. enjoy it"
Groundhog Day is one of my favorite movies of all time. Its also the movie that may be the most nitpickable and deepdive into the minutia of it movie of all time. Thats the fun.
In regards to "its a fictional movie, cant think too hard about it"
Movies like this set forth rules about how the mechanics of the fictional force work. Its fair to point out things that dont follow the rules set forth by the movie.
EXCEPT...they remember the other days. Theyve acquired knowledge. Skills. Memories. Talents.
These are all physical changes in the brain. Neural pathways being created. Synapse shortcuts. Treating the brain different than say, the biceps or the eyes is very inconsistent.
Now you might say the brain is the only thing allowed to change. Well then it would age. Bill Murray would be riddled with dementia. Pooping himself.
Disclaimer:
In regards to: "its just a movie. enjoy it"
Groundhog Day is one of my favorite movies of all time. Its also the movie that may be the most nitpickable and deepdive into the minutia of it movie of all time. Thats the fun.
In regards to "its a fictional movie, cant think too hard about it"
Movies like this set forth rules about how the mechanics of the fictional force work. Its fair to point out things that dont follow the rules set forth by the movie.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 9:11 pm
14
Posted on 7/14/20 at 9:14 pm to Hester Carries
So I guess you liked that Happy Death Day made note of all the times she gets wrecked before waking back up?
Posted on 7/14/20 at 9:16 pm to Hester Carries
I love time loop movies, but you have a point. They bring all kinds of issues. Even Back to the Future causes some issues by Marty going back 10 mins before he left for 1955.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 9:28 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
Now you might say the brain is the only thing allowed to change. Well then it would age. Bill Murray would be riddled with dementia. Pooping himself.
If his brain could learn and keep learning ergo aging as a living organ, then his brain would've been long dead by the time "he gets it" and wakes up to a new day.
Apparently his time loop was 1,000 years.
So Murray drinking out of a sippy-cup to his Colleagues after being normal the day before, doesn't sound as entertaining as "we better stay ahead of weather."
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 9:31 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 9:35 pm to Hester Carries
quote:except these movies aren't science fiction. They don't exist to create a universe, explore it, and build complicated rules and whatnot about the universe
Movies like this set forth rules about how the mechanics of the fictional force work.
They exist as a metaphor on what it takes to become a better person and/or finding whatever meaning in your life is. They don't spend too much time grappling with the rules of their universe because the rules of their universe take a back seat to the characters in them
You can nitpick on the structure of things, but thats not the point to the movie
Posted on 7/14/20 at 9:44 pm to Hester Carries
I know you’re doing the “movies sets forth rules”
And that’s the rule that’s set forth.
You keep your memories and skills.
And that’s the rule that’s set forth.
You keep your memories and skills.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 9:50 pm to Hester Carries
Except he was in the time loop controlled by a hidden power trying to teach him a lesson. So I don’t necessarily think the was a physical law in place to be broken; more like a playing a video game over and over he just got better at it.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 9:52 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
xcept these movies aren't science fiction. They don't exist to create a universe, explore it, and build complicated rules and whatnot about the universe
They exist as a metaphor on what it takes to become a better person and/or finding whatever meaning in your life is. They don't spend too much time grappling with the rules of their universe because the rules of their universe take a back seat to the characters in them
That’s a good point.
Palm Springs SPOILERS
Palm Springs especially goes out of its way to show just how meaningless the rules are with this idea that they can literally just explode themselves out of the loop
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 9:54 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 10:09 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
I know you’re doing the “movies sets forth rules”
And that’s the rule that’s set forth.
You keep your memories and skills.
If you don’t have the ability to take part in a discussion, maybe don’t.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 10:14 pm to Hester Carries
What more do you want?
Posted on 7/14/20 at 10:14 pm to MrTide33
quote:
Even Back to the Future causes some issues by Marty going back 10 mins before he left for 1955.
Bigger question why did Doc need to take Marty from 80’s to the future? If his kid was screw up why not just go to when the kid is born and tell Marty.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 10:44 pm to Dizz
quote:or an even bigger question is how did Marty have a kid if he skipped ahead
Bigger question why did Doc need to take Marty from 80’s to the future? If his kid was screw up why not just go to when the kid is born and tell Marty.
Posted on 7/15/20 at 12:25 am to Dizz
Yeah, BTTF2 and BTTF3 raise much bigger problems than the original
Posted on 7/15/20 at 1:30 am to Dizz
quote:
Bigger question why did Doc need to take Marty from 80’s to the future? If his kid was screw up why not just go to when the kid is born and tell Marty.
Doc needed somebody to blame for all the issues he was causing with time travel. He didn't want to take responsibility so he roped Marty in to be his fall guy. Mr. Strickland was right about Doc all along.
Posted on 7/15/20 at 6:22 am to MrTide33
quote:
Palm Springs especially goes out of its way to show just how meaningless the rules are with this idea that they can literally just explode themselves out of the loop
Well, Palm springs is a litte different. The loop didn't just start on its on. He had to go through the cave for it to start.
Posted on 7/15/20 at 7:06 am to Hester Carries
quote:
Movies like this set forth rules about how the mechanics of the fictional force work. Its fair to point out things that dont follow the rules set forth by the movie.
But “the rules” aren’t laid out specifically enough to validate your critique. In fact, there is no insight into the “mechanics of the fictional force” at all really.
Clearly there is some manipulation of the space time continuum to create the loop. As far as we can tell, the time it takes to live thousands of days within the loop could take only fractions of a second in the actual timeline if any actual passage of time at all.
In a universe where a person can literally die and be brought back to life to an earlier physical state despite whatever physical trauma caused the death why is it harder to accept that the mind can be restored to an overall earlier state of health despite the tangible implications of memory retention on the physical brain?
Of course there is also the idea that there is an existential element of consciousness that is not necessarily tied to our physical state that you completely ignore but is in no way precluded by the “rules” of the film, but is practically the pivotal point of acceptance in order to be able to receive the film as presented.
So yeah, you’re nitpicking
This post was edited on 7/15/20 at 7:11 am
Posted on 7/15/20 at 7:24 am to Hester Carries
quote:
In all of these movies, the character stuck in the time loop wakes up the same day physically unaltered by the previously lived versions of that day. They dont age. They cant work out in a way that builds on itself. They dont carry forth injuries...etc. etc. etc.
EXCEPT...they remember the other days. Theyve acquired knowledge. Skills. Memories. Talents.
These are all physical changes in the brain. Neural pathways being created. Synapse shortcuts. Treating the brain different than say, the biceps or the eyes is very inconsistent.
oh Jesus Christ shut the frick up
Posted on 7/15/20 at 8:57 am to SammyTiger
quote:
What more do you want?
You literally just said "thats the way it is and i dont have the desire to think any deeper into than that so im just going to say that"
Just...dont be in the conversation if you're not going to bring anything worthwhile.
I dont think "they get to keep their memories" is a valid response to the argument that memories area physical change which is explicitly not allowed. It doesnt address the contradiction in any way.
Posted on 7/15/20 at 9:01 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
why is it harder to accept that the mind can be restored to an overall earlier state of health despite the tangible implications of memory retention on the physical brain?
Because one is consistent with every other part of the body and one isnt.
quote:
Of course there is also the idea that there is an existential element of consciousness that is not necessarily tied to our physical state that you completely ignore but is in no way precluded by the “rules” of the film, but is practically the pivotal point of acceptance in order to be able to receive the film as presented.
I do ignore it because its not how it is. Everything that happens in the body is a result of the physical.
quote:
So yeah, you’re nitpicking
There are entire essays and books nitpicking these types of movies. Its fun.
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