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Message
re: A Song of Ice and Fire (GoT "I read the book" thread)
Posted on 4/20/11 at 4:29 pm to Books
Posted on 4/20/11 at 4:29 pm to Books
There are ways to pull it off, but that's just personal preference on my part. I've really become tired of1200 page books. I just recently reread Bester's The Stars My Destinztion and the nine princes in amber. These relatively small books packed as much or more story into them than martin's story. They just skipped to the point and were comfortable with things happening off screen. I'm beginning to think multiple pov's are are a crutch for author's who don't want to make hard choices regarding where they want to take the reader.
1
Posted on 4/20/11 at 4:38 pm to PurpleandGold Motown
I'm glad he didn't skip to the point with his series as it's some of the best fiction I've read. But I dontt really need instant gratification. How he gets there is the best part, same with Lost
This post was edited on 4/20/11 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 4/20/11 at 5:00 pm to Books
It is not about instant gratification. It is about focus. Holes in stories make the reader work and each story is more because of what is not said. Massive stories with multi povs lose focus and fall apart. The author loses control. It happened to Jordan and now it's happening to Martin.
More is not always more. It's a recent trend in fantasy to tell everything from every angle. I just think most stories woould be better without it.
I would really suggest reading the article about martin in the wsj or maybe the nyt and look at his quotes. He's lost control but is too big a seller to be subject to an aggressive editor.
More is not always more. It's a recent trend in fantasy to tell everything from every angle. I just think most stories woould be better without it.
I would really suggest reading the article about martin in the wsj or maybe the nyt and look at his quotes. He's lost control but is too big a seller to be subject to an aggressive editor.
Posted on 4/20/11 at 6:13 pm to PurpleandGold Motown
Pretty sure I've read those articles and dont remember anything really insinuating that but you have a link?
I disagree that his story is falling apart. AFFc wasn't what the first three were but it remains o be seen once ADWD is published. And Jordan isn't half the writer GRRM is
I disagree that his story is falling apart. AFFc wasn't what the first three were but it remains o be seen once ADWD is published. And Jordan isn't half the writer GRRM is
This post was edited on 4/20/11 at 6:24 pm
Posted on 4/20/11 at 7:47 pm to Books
I agree the GRRM is a better writer than Jordan, but even superior writer's can fall into the same traps, especially when they stop listening to their editor and just "write what they feel".
The New Yorker
While not exactly damning quotes, they illustrate an author who is having trouble with the scope of the world he has created. He's spending an inordinate amount of time with the minutiae. Maybe it's just pressure. Martin needs to go on a killing spree and eliminate half of the POV characters. I'm sure it will work out in the end.
This will be the last epic fantasy I read for a long time. I'm just sick of the whole style, but I've invested 12 years of my life reading this series and I will finish it. After that, it will take a lot for me to ever read another one.
Nothing but single POVs from now on.
The New Yorker
quote:
Making sure that the chronologies of the different stories line up has particularly bedevilled Martin. He said, “I have to ask myself, ‘How long is it going to take this character to get from point A to point B by ship? Meanwhile, what’s happened in the other book? If it’s going to take him this long, but in the other book I said that he’d already arrived there, then I’m in trouble. So I have to have him leave earlier.’ That kind of stuff has driven me crazy.” Last year, he wrote on his blog, “I know perfectly well that as soon as ‘Dance’ is published, some of you out there are going to attempt to correlate its chronology with that of ‘A Feast for Crows.’ . . . Well, it may well make your head explode. It did mine. The ‘Dance’ timeline alone is a bitch and a half"
quote:
Martin explained that he’s been tinkering with some parts of “A Dance with Dragons” for ten years. He has a “real love-hate relationship” with a chapter that focusses on Tyrion Lannister, the dwarf: “I ripped it out and put it back in, I ripped it out and put it back in. Then I put it in as a dream sequence, and then I ripped it out again. This is the stuff I’ve been doing"
While not exactly damning quotes, they illustrate an author who is having trouble with the scope of the world he has created. He's spending an inordinate amount of time with the minutiae. Maybe it's just pressure. Martin needs to go on a killing spree and eliminate half of the POV characters. I'm sure it will work out in the end.
This will be the last epic fantasy I read for a long time. I'm just sick of the whole style, but I've invested 12 years of my life reading this series and I will finish it. After that, it will take a lot for me to ever read another one.
Nothing but single POVs from now on.
Posted on 4/20/11 at 8:05 pm to PurpleandGold Motown
I mean it's well documented hes a perfectionist and was obv having major issues with this latest book. Like you admitted I didnt read anything that points to him losing his focus in the story. As for POVs, I don't read fantasy on a reg basis and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Lucky for me I guess, but ASOIAF is the best
epic I've ever read by a good bit. If he never wrote another word it'd have been worth the investment
epic I've ever read by a good bit. If he never wrote another word it'd have been worth the investment
This post was edited on 4/20/11 at 8:13 pm
Posted on 4/20/11 at 8:22 pm to Books
I'm sure he is having a lot of problems with inconsistencies and chronology, but I bet he exaggerates them to get fans off his back when it takes him 6 years to write 1 book.
Posted on 4/20/11 at 8:51 pm to audodger
I have been suspecting that he is just a lazy frick that prefers touring to writing.
How many times have we heard "I hope to meet this deadline and finish before leaving on my trip to Spain."
How many times have we heard "I hope to meet this deadline and finish before leaving on my trip to Spain."
This post was edited on 4/20/11 at 8:52 pm
Posted on 4/20/11 at 9:07 pm to Joe
on a related note i ordered Game of Thrones and it comes in tomorrow! Unfortunately, I'm expecting a lot, given the hype.
p.s. - I've never read fiction...I figured if there's any fiction I could get into it would be this series.
p.s. - I've never read fiction...I figured if there's any fiction I could get into it would be this series.
This post was edited on 4/20/11 at 9:08 pm
Posted on 4/20/11 at 9:22 pm to Volvagia
Well there's that. If he didn,t want the pressure he should have stayed with one off books and the wildcards collaboration.
Posted on 4/20/11 at 9:48 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
on a related note i ordered Game of Thrones and it comes in tomorrow! Unfortunately, I'm expecting a lot, given the hype.
p.s. - I've never read fiction...I figured if there's any fiction I could get into it would be this series.
Just commit to reading at least the first 200 pages and you will get hooked. I could see how someone who has never read fiction (don't know how that's possible) could get bored with it early on, but the hype is well-deserved. Stick with it.
Posted on 4/20/11 at 9:53 pm to audodger
I said I was going to wait, but I caved and started book 4 tonight...we will see how it goes
Posted on 4/20/11 at 10:13 pm to Volvagia
quote:
Problem is that you aren't the author...and the author has referred to problems with that in his blog.
Doesn't matter if you see a problem or not.
Maybe he doesn't know what to do with Bran either....but you can't just cling to your theory to the point of ignoring/disregarding what the author actually said...
I found the quote from Martin showing he is having problems with the North and Bran specifically. Directly from GRRM, a single Bran chapter took him 6 years.
Bran Chapter
"Mar. 15th, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Well, I finished a chapter of the DANCE this morning. Which ordinarily would not be occasion for comment, but this was a Bran chapter that I've been struggling with for something like six years. Bran has always been the toughest character to write, for a whole bunch of reasons, but this chapter in particular was killing me.
Anyway, that's one done. (Unless I wake up tomorrow, reread what I've done, decide that I hate it, and tear the whole thing up. Which does happen from time to time).
Now let's hope the NEXT Bran chapter doesn't take six years as well."
This post was edited on 4/20/11 at 10:17 pm
Posted on 4/20/11 at 10:16 pm to Joe
quote:
I said I was going to wait, but I caved and started book 4 tonight...we will see how it goes
I hope this helps.
I read Feast when it came out and was frustrated, haven't touched or really thought about the series much in the last few years.
With HBO producing GoT, my interest has been renewed. In addition, I've had a few friends do a reread of Feast and they said it was much better than their initial assessment.
Posted on 4/20/11 at 10:20 pm to audodger
quote:I'll give it my best.
Just commit to reading at least the first 200 pages and you will get hooked.
quote:
I could see how someone who has never read fiction (don't know how that's possible) could get bored with it early on
never read fiction by choice, outside of school assignments in h.s. and freshman year of college.
Having majored in history, I love the time period it seems to portray... that's what caught my interest.
Posted on 4/20/11 at 10:23 pm to bayoubengals88
I think you'll like it. I get frustrated with the author, but that's largely due to 2 factors. I started the series when it came out and it's addictive.
It is not just a fantasy series, it's well written. It's appeal is much broader than the fantasy genre.
It is not just a fantasy series, it's well written. It's appeal is much broader than the fantasy genre.
Posted on 4/20/11 at 10:32 pm to SLC
quote:too many subplots? no clear protagonist? leaving out characters in the fourth book? (ive read reviews)
I get frustrated with the author, but that's largely due to 2 factors
if it wont ruin my experience...what are the reasons?
Posted on 4/20/11 at 10:50 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
too many subplots? no clear protagonist? leaving out characters in the fourth book? (ive read reviews)
if it wont ruin my experience...what are the reasons?
Largely my frustration is that he's taking so long to finish the series. Nor does he seem to be working on the books, or at least as hard as I would like to see. If the Jets have a bad game, he's out of it until they win again. Then he has to leave for 3 weeks to go to the newest Con where he's a guest speaker. This is followed up by travelling to HBO's set during shooting where he's blowing HBO's budget b/c he's eating all of their food.
Feast is really half of a book. It appears that the publisher forced him to publish something so that's what we got, 1/2 of a book.
The Meereenese Knot, IMO, does not solely refer to Dany's storyline in Meereen but is a metaphor for GRRM's overall difficulty in finishing the series. I'm not sure he knows how to finish ASoI&F.
This post was edited on 4/20/11 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 4/20/11 at 11:09 pm to SLC
Hi SLC
My take is this: GRRM has a huge ego. He's a fat weirdo that stumbled into writing and made a fortune on it. The first few books made him lots of money and he did what every other hot blooded american would do, he tried to maximize his profit. Why write the series in 4 or 5 books when you could stretch it out another few years and make it 7???
He's like a cocaine dealer. keep adding random chemicals to your product to stretch every last penny out of it. Well, he got behind after he realized how much he'd make doing the comic cons and other appearances so now he is fricked.
I think his biggest problem now is that all of the fans of the series have practically outlined the major spoilers and hangers of the final books. now he is forced to think of some creative way to deliver them since most of us already know how certain things should logically play out (i.e. jon snow's lineage).
The more i think about it, this story is so stretchd out i don't see how there can really be a solid conclusion.
My take is this: GRRM has a huge ego. He's a fat weirdo that stumbled into writing and made a fortune on it. The first few books made him lots of money and he did what every other hot blooded american would do, he tried to maximize his profit. Why write the series in 4 or 5 books when you could stretch it out another few years and make it 7???
He's like a cocaine dealer. keep adding random chemicals to your product to stretch every last penny out of it. Well, he got behind after he realized how much he'd make doing the comic cons and other appearances so now he is fricked.
I think his biggest problem now is that all of the fans of the series have practically outlined the major spoilers and hangers of the final books. now he is forced to think of some creative way to deliver them since most of us already know how certain things should logically play out (i.e. jon snow's lineage).
The more i think about it, this story is so stretchd out i don't see how there can really be a solid conclusion.
Posted on 4/20/11 at 11:15 pm to YumYum Sauce
Ha. Y'all are some cynical mf'ers
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