re: A Song of Ice and Fire (GoT "I read the book" thread)

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That guy has a damaged nose (Rorge?)

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good shite miroki

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A man weeps

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Sansa is getting better.

But frick if she wasn't vapid as all hell in the first book.

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Yes--but I think Joffrey's betrayal and all the abuse she suffered at the hands of the Lannisters in the Red Keep cured her of her girlish ideals and served to toughen her up (and make her character more tolerable and interesting). She's also getting smarter, thanks to Littlefinger's tutoring, and becoming marginally more sly though she doesn't have her sister's natural cunning.

I'm anxious to get onto book 5 but think that a lot of my questions will remain completely unresolved since (I assume) we'll be getting the story from a completely different set of POVs. I do want to see what's up with Tyrion, Jon, and Bran but I don't want to miss out on Arya and Littlefinger.

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Why would a Faceless Man come to King's Landing though? Even if Syrio was a cover?

Who was the target?

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Valid point. Maybe Ned? Robert?

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And apparently a lot of fans are taking the episode appearance as canon and are saying it was definitely Illyrio that was Vary's contact.

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I think this was a fairly popular theory prior to the show, Illyrio and the person Arya saw are both fat with forked yellow beards and ring covered fingers and the other gentlemen sounds alot like one of Vary's disguises.

Like I said this is more of a wish than evidenced. But fm was in kings landing even if syrio! =jaqen. And it seems to me the fm don't get caught unless they mean to.

Soo... maybe ned knew he wouldn't return north. He was naive but not stupid. So maybe he hired a fm to protect his children as he saw fit. Maybe he is protecting them all by doing something in the citadel.
Maybe evidence of jons lineage? :crackpot:

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Robert, maybe.

Cersei may have just beat him to the punch.

It couldn't have been Ned though. All he needs is one moment alone, and he had that.

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Unless there was a particular way they wanted it done to implicate someone else.

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Even if Syrio isn't Jaquen....it would be nice to know who is bankrolling him.

Remember how Lifflefinger talked about how expensive they are? Could get a mass of sellswords for just the cost of assassinating a single middling merchant.

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Littlefinger is good with money and Illyrio is loaded, so those are both options.

Then again we could be reading way too much into Martin leaving Syrio's fate un-resolved. He has a habit of making the reader hyper aware of the smallest things possibly having deeper meaning and I wouldn't put it past him to purposly do the same thing in the show just to frick with us.

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One of the only episodes actually written by the author and they make a point of leaving his living or dying up in the air.

Also, in the season finale, the character we assume is Jaquen H'gar has his face covered by a hood. Is it because they haven't cast the role yet, or was Syrio taken to the black cells and had not changed his face yet?

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IMO, GRRM was not gonna reveal something in the show that he left ambiguous in the books when he really has no reason to. Leaving something like that somewhat ambiguous keeps up speculation. Personally I don't buy the theory. Not much evidence other than their hometown, and Arya having interaction w/ them.

sorry that last post was from my phone.

No matter if syrio is jaqen, there was a Faceless Man (jaqen) in Kings Landing for an unknown purpose that winds up in the cells.

ETA: I found this when I was searching for a quote by Jaqen

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The biggest piece of proof pointing toward the fact that Syrio is still alive is the simple fact that we didn’t see him die, nor have had any proof that he is dead. When we last left him on GoT, page 534, Syrio was preparing to face down Meryn Trant after his wooden sword was broken. Since we see Meryn appear after the encounter but not Syrio, we assume that Syrio was killed. Meryn doesn’t seem like the type to mess around, and he did order his men to kill Syrio.

But one can doubt this. We never hear any report that he is dead. The closest confirmation that we have is something Cersei tells Tyrion on CoK, pg. 58:

“I sent Meryn Trant to take her {Arya} in hand when Robert died, but her wretched dancing master interfered and the girl fled.”

Note that Cersei says nothing to imply that Syrio was killed in the encounter. Syrio ‘interfered,’ not ‘sacrificed himself.’ Some readers have taken this to mean that Syrio did not die at Meryn’s hands, and, in fact, was placed in the black cells.

Cut to A Clash of Kings. Yoren is taking Arya to the Wall, along with some criminals, including three men from the black cells. One of these men can easily change his physical appearance, and shows an inclination to pay special attention to Arya. Could he be Syrio in a different disguise?

There are some basic similarities. Syrio claimed to be from Braavos. Jaqen claimed to come from Lorath, but later contradicts this and tells Arya to seek out training in Braavos. Both men seem to be good at killing. Both seem to respect Arya a lot. Both men use the phrase “Just so” quite often. And Jaqen was able to figure out that “Arry” was really Arya Stark. Could it be that Syrio Forel was really a Faceless Man the whole time, masquerading as a swordmaster for some unknown purpose?

But there are holes in the theory straight off. Yes, Syrio and Jaqen both say “Just so” a lot. But this is a trademark phrase of the Free Cities. Thoros, Salladhor Saan, Captain Groleo, Illyrio and Dany have all used the phrase at times; there is nothing that remarkable about it.

Then there is the fact concerning Braavos. However, Syrio seems to be a well-known personality, not an identity that Jaqen picked as a simple cover. He claims to have been first sword to the Sealord of Braavos for nine years. (GoT, pg. 224). Either Jaqen had maintained his disguise for a long time, or he was stupidly telling lies that any fool could see through. Also, Eddard thinks that Syrio has an ‘excellent reputation.’ (GoT, pg. 317) This implies that Syrio is a well-known, long-standing personality at King’s Landing; not some false identity conjured out of nowhere.

It has been suggested that perhaps Jaqen killed the real Syrio and is simply masquerading as him. If that is the case, why does he spend so much time teaching Arya in King’s Landing, and later submit to imprisonment and transportation all the way to Harrenhal? What is his mission or objective that he is doing these strage things under various guises, each time going out of the way to help Arya? Jaqen does not seem like a man who can waste time training girls at swords. His conversations with Arya at Harrenhal imply that he is working on some mission that needs to be fulfilled. (“I have promises to keep.”--CoK, pg. 691}. So if Jaqen is Syrio, what is his objective?

Finally, there is the question of when Jaqen had time to change out of his Syrio-persona into the man with the physical characteristics we attribute to Jaqen. Surely someone wmust have noticed this stark change in appearance, even if he did it in his cell.

So, in conclusion, it is possible, even feasible, that Jaqen H’ghar is Syrio Forel. However, some common sense assumptions seem to rule out the fact.

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In relation to the bolded portion: what better place to hide than in plain sight? Or maybe Ned hired him knows who he truly is but allowed him this ruse, so he could protect his daughters after his death. The Lord of the North could probably swing it. He seems to abhor Robert's debt so he was probably financially secure.

Again this is out there but I liked syrio We have a faceless man (Jaqen) in Kings Landing (somehow captured and in the dungeons) that gives Arya (whom he recognizes) instruction (apart from the 3 deaths) and then later tells her that he has other "promises to keep," Not targets. He then gives her a way of escape (the coin). Add to that the fact that it is simply very coincidental that the first sword of Braavos and a Faceless Man are in the same place at the same time.
It is just something that has been nagging at me.

Come ADWD the Illyrio and Varys connection will be revealed to all. It's in the sample chapters/readings by the way.