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re: Zach Lowe on the Anthony Davis trade situation
Posted on 12/27/18 at 12:58 pm to jackwoods4
Posted on 12/27/18 at 12:58 pm to jackwoods4
quote:
The Celtics can put together the best offer. Then probably LA.
I don't get people ripping the Lakers offer. Ingram is young, developing and has star potential. Kuzma is 23 and will be a solid player for 10 years and is also still developing.
If the Pels got those 2, hit a lottery pick in this year's draft and got some space to sign a good value midlevel FA, they have a young core to build around.
They aren't flipping AD into championship contention, so they might as well get some guys to build around who will hit their prime around the time the building is done. That time also lines up with the twilight of the Warriors, LeBron, etc.
5
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:02 pm to Rep520
The West is so stacked that there is little point in making a competitor stronger.
Kuzma, Ingram, Jrue, and a few pieces could be decent but do you see them competing for even a bad playoff spot anytime soon?
Better to bottom out and get high lottery picks than ride the late lottery treadmill and hope, at best, to get swept as the 8th seed.
Kuzma, Ingram, Jrue, and a few pieces could be decent but do you see them competing for even a bad playoff spot anytime soon?
Better to bottom out and get high lottery picks than ride the late lottery treadmill and hope, at best, to get swept as the 8th seed.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:05 pm to CocoLoco
quote:
They don’t. I don’t want mediocre players like Ball and ingram in exchange for a 3x all nba player.
Give me Tatum from Boston or Simmons from Philly.
I don't necessarily understand valuing Tatum that much higher than Ingram. Ingram is about 200 days older, so basically the same age.
Ingram averages 15.5, 4 and 2. Tatum, 17, 6.5 and 1.6. If Ingram solves his dropoff frkm 3 point (39% last year, 31% this year) they are very comparable. Ingram plays slightly fewer minutes, so per 36 is even closer.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:08 pm to Rep520
quote:
I don't get people ripping the Lakers offer. Ingram is young, developing and has star potential.
Ingram has severely regressed offensively and looked worse defensively, whether its from being with LeBron or not he has stalled. Same with Jaylen Brown for Boston.
quote:
Kuzma is 23 and will be a solid player for 10 years and is also still developing.
This would be the key guy IMHO, modern day wing. Can play the 3 or 4. Can shoot. meh defender, can pass
quote:
If the Pels got those 2, hit a lottery pick in this year's draft and got some space to sign a good value midlevel FA, they have a young core to build around.
They aren't flipping AD into championship contention, so they might as well get some guys to build around who will hit their prime around the time the building is done. That time also lines up with the twilight of the Warriors, LeBron, etc.
Additional picks would have to be added to the scenario, but I can come up with 3 better trades outside of LA.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:08 pm to teke184
quote:
Kuzma, Ingram, Jrue, and a few pieces could be decent but do you see them competing for even a bad playoff spot anytime soon?
I think that core is a lottery team for a year or two. If I was the Pels, I'd be banking on hitting on those two picks, and then as Ingram and Kuzma really are blooming, that's when you try to make your run.
I don't see a scenario where they trade AD and are close to contention for at least 2-3 years. They might as well go on a 2-3 year plan.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:09 pm to Rep520
quote:
I don't get people ripping the Lakers offer. Ingram is young, developing and has star potential. Kuzma is 23 and will be a solid player for 10 years and is also still developing.
It's not so much that the lakers offer is shite, it's more that the Celtics best offer is better. Better players and better picks.
Like I said earlier, the only way AD goes to the lakers prior to 2020 is if the Celtics allow it to happen.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:11 pm to Rep520
I watch a lot of Lakers games. I just don’t see it from Ingram at all. He’s an OK player. Tatum has legit star potential.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:12 pm to Rep520
quote:
I don't get people ripping the Lakers offer. Ingram is young, developing and has star potential. Kuzma is 23 and will be a solid player for 10 years and is also still developing.
I take it you're a Lakers fan.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:12 pm to Rep520
quote:
I don't necessarily understand valuing Tatum that much higher than Ingram. Ingram is about 200 days older, so basically the same age.
Well this is just insane
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:15 pm to Rep520
Given the current West, I’d go full Hinkle and look 5-7 years down the line.
Even with the flattened lottery odds the chances of getting good talent in New Orleans are better with high picks than through trades or free agency.
Even with the flattened lottery odds the chances of getting good talent in New Orleans are better with high picks than through trades or free agency.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:27 pm to CocoLoco
quote:
I watch a lot of Lakers games. I just don’t see it from Ingram at all. He’s an OK player. Tatum has legit star potential.
I get some of it is subjective, but look at the stats.
Ingram's clearly had a rocky start adjusting to LeBron and his stats aren't far off Tatum, other than shooting percentage. Ingram's been a better shooter historically, so I don't think it's crazy to think he'll work it out. They're both decent defenders but not stoppers.
The big thing, I think the Pels can get Ingram now. The Celts are on the outside looking in until July, and you don't know if they'll even put Tatum in. If AD rejects the extension, the Celts don't need to make a Godfather offer, just enough to get the job done.
The other half of waiting until summer is if the Lakers land a star with their max FA spot. If they do land a Leonard, Thompson or the KD home run, they probably aren't going to sell out for AD nearly as much.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:38 pm to Rep520
I wouldn’t take a subpar offer now on the assumption that Boston lowballs us.
A Boston lowball is still better than what most teams can offer between picks and players.
A Boston lowball is still better than what most teams can offer between picks and players.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:39 pm to Rep520
quote:
Ingram averages 15.5, 4 and 2. Tatum, 17, 6.5 and 1.6. If Ingram solves his dropoff frkm 3 point (39% last year, 31% this year) they are very comparable. Ingram plays slightly fewer minutes, so per 36 is even closer.
Those numbers tell very little of the entire story.
Tatum is a much better 3 point shooter, better finisher at the rim, better free throw shooter, better defender, better rebounder and turns the ball over less. Really the only thing Ingram is better at is midrange shooting, which isn't very valuable in todays game.
Also, with regard to Ingram's "dropoff" in 3 point shooting - He's had one good year (39%) sandwiched between two awful years (29% and 31%) so I'd say this year is more of the norm and last year was the outlier. He also is shooting that percentage at 1.8 attempts per game, while Tatum is at 38.5% (also a dropoff from last years 43%) at 5 attempts per game.
That's why Tatum is valued much higher than Ingram.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:50 pm to Rep520
quote:
I get some of it is subjective, but look at the stats. Ingram's clearly had a rocky start adjusting to LeBron and his stats aren't far off Tatum, other than shooting percentage. Ingram's been a better shooter historically, so I don't think it's crazy to think he'll work it out. They're both decent defenders but not stoppers.
One has already balled the frick out and led his team to the eastern conference finals as a rookie. The other hasn't even been to the playoffs.
There isn't a sane, knowledgeable person out there that would put ingram at above Tatum.
Tatum in year 1 was better than Ingram in year 3.
You ask us to look at the stats, but I'm looking at them right now and I ain't seeing anything that looks positive for Ingram over Tatum.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:52 pm to JohnnyKilroy
Lakers homers are the worst. 
Tatum and Ingram aren't currently in the same stratosphere.
Tatum and Ingram aren't currently in the same stratosphere.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 1:58 pm to teke184
quote:
I wouldn’t take a subpar offer now on the assumption that Boston lowballs us.
A Boston lowball is still better than what most teams can offer between picks and players.
It's just a risky strategy. If people think AD and Klutch really want LA, Boston isn't necessarily going to part with anyone good.
I agree Boston could put together a better total package than LA, I just come back to the bird in the hand being better. LA would give the Pels a decent return and path forwards right now. In the offseason, maybe they get better. Maybe the market dries up.
The other thing is this is a strong FA market. Teams who hit in the FA market can leave the trade market. I don't know. The Lakers deal now locks you into decent. Leaving it to ride is the gambling option.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 2:03 pm to Rep520
I also feel the pels are underrating Ingram and kuzma
Posted on 12/27/18 at 2:03 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Tatum and Ingram aren't currently in the same stratosphere.
To be fair, this is all contingent on Tatum becoming a star, if he is given the role, minutes and in the proper system. They are both young, unproven guys with nice talent. Tatum is just a better athlete and is a better fit to a position. I wouldn't bet on either becoming a superstar. Jaylen Brown looked like a star in the playoffs last year too. The East is really weak though and Stevens coached them both up.
On the other hand, I don't like Ingram. He looks stoned and lazy, plus he is soft. Guy should have some muscle by now. If I had my pick, I'm going Tatum. But there isn't some vast gap in between the two. Honestly, I think the Pels can do better than either one..
Posted on 12/27/18 at 2:04 pm to Rep520
Boston has been accumulating assets for years specifically to get Davis.
You think Ainge is going to let Magic beat him out for Davis? Ainge would bring him in for a year, take him to the finals or a title, then dare him to leave for LA.
You think Ainge is going to let Magic beat him out for Davis? Ainge would bring him in for a year, take him to the finals or a title, then dare him to leave for LA.
Posted on 12/27/18 at 2:06 pm to Mr Perfect
quote:I like Kuzma as a scorer off the bench.
I also feel the pels are underrating Ingram and kuzma
I don't see what's so enticing about Ingram. I don't know what he's good at. I know he's young at 21, but he's been in the league 3 seasons now, and I feel like we haven't even seen flashes of his ability to be really good.
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