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re: Will we ever see a team run the “ 40 minutes of Hell” again?

Posted on 2/18/19 at 9:59 pm to
Posted by sms151t
Polos, Porsches, Ponies..PROBATION
Member since Aug 2009
139840 posts
Posted on 2/18/19 at 9:59 pm to
Arkansas played in 2 of the greatest games I ever watched

The 92 SEC Semi Final vs Alabama
The 95 SEC Final vs Kentucky
Posted by sms151t
Polos, Porsches, Ponies..PROBATION
Member since Aug 2009
139840 posts
Posted on 2/18/19 at 10:00 pm to
quote:

court press and subs 5 for 5


That’s more of The Posse from Tulane in 92-93 than what Arkansas did
This post was edited on 2/18/19 at 10:01 pm
Posted by navy
Parts Unknown, LA
Member since Sep 2010
29038 posts
Posted on 2/18/19 at 10:42 pm to
Local Middle School team did this year, and typically had opponents crushed by the mid-1st quarter.
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35503 posts
Posted on 2/18/19 at 11:04 pm to
This is a great article on the history of the Press...

A Press that Panics Them All

UCLA'S SWARMING DEFENSIVE STYLE EXHILARATES SPECTATORS, UPSETS OPPONENTS AND HAS CARRIED THE BRUINS TO TWO SUCCESSIVE NATIONAL TITLES. NOW IT HAS BECOME ALL THE RAGE, AND COLLEGE TEAMS EVERYWHERE MUST PREPARE TO HANDLE THE PRESS, WHETHER OR NOT THEY PLAY UCLA. HERE SOME OF THE BEST BRAINS IN BASKETBALL DISCUSS COUNTERMEASURES

quote:

What makes the zone so intriguing is that it does not take a big man like a Russell or a superstar like a Robertson to make it work. The UCLA teams of the last two years were of average size and, though Walt Hazzard and Gail Goodrich are fine players, neither one is a Cousy, a Bradley or a West. Both teams, however, were made up of well-conditioned athletes, dedicated to a demanding philosophy of play through superb coaching.

Forced to concede the efficacy of the UCLA system, these same coaches fall back on the notion that Wooden's success is all a matter of personnel. With Wooden's players, they say, we'd win the NCAA, and with a press, too. This is a pat answer, but it simply is not true. Through hard work, patience and intelligent use of talent, Wooden has won with the kind of players available nearly everywhere in the country today.

Wooden reasoned, "When a zone press is beaten, a team is in trouble if it cannot fall back and properly protect itself. By first working on the man-to-man press we learned how to fall back naturally when we had to."

Finally Wooden taught his players the zone. This was not a one-week or even a one-season affair. Over the years the Bruins mastered the exhausting technique, sharpening their reactions and learning to anticipate each other's moves. And each new group of players absorbed both the inspiration required and some of the technique itself from the older players.

What developed was a zone press that kept the pressure on an opponent almost constantly. It irritated, harassed and confused, and worked so well in 1963-'64 that UCLA won 30 straight and crushed Duke in the NCAA final. Last year Wooden changed his defensive alignment to put still more pressure on the offense. He moved a man up the baseline to play the opponent making the inbounds pass.

The effect was devastating, because opponents then had trouble even getting the ball into play. But the essential qualities of the press were the same—quickness, precision and extreme confidence in execution—as Michigan sadly learned in the national championship playoff last March. For this season Wooden plans other changes. "If we don't change," he says, "coaches will soon figure out how to lick it."

Basically, the press is an attacking defense. Its immediate aim is to cause an otherwise good team to panic.

It is designed to upset the rhythm of the enemy offense, create instant confusion and force errors. When it succeeds, it can overcome a 10-point deficit in minutes. In UCLA's 3-1-1 the defense forms immediately after UCLA scores a field goal or a foul shot.

The center plays the out-of-bounds passer tight, the guards protect the areas on either side and one man—usually the quickest and with the best reactions—assumes a position midway between the baseline and midcourt, ready to intercept a medium pass.

The safety man lines up deep to guard against the long pass and to protect against penetration. When the opponents do put the ball into play UCLA usually will double-team the first receiver, trying to harass him into a fumble or into throwing the ball away.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 9:45 am to
Sure. Wv was close to that last year.

Posted by swagsurfin7
Founder of the Alex Morgan Fan Club
Member since Dec 2009
6993 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 1:02 pm to
The Mountaineers did it last season

RIP #PressVirginia
Posted by RedPop4
Santiago de Compostela
Member since Jan 2005
14406 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 1:05 pm to
THAT is sports-writing. No @ or # to get in the way, reporting who, what, when, where, how.
Posted by redfishfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2015
4412 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 1:09 pm to
Guard play along with more skilled bigs makes it almost impossible to do. You may could beat weaker teams pressing 4 quarters but the big dogs are going to reverse the ball and skip pass dunk you to death.
Posted by sms151t
Polos, Porsches, Ponies..PROBATION
Member since Aug 2009
139840 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 1:12 pm to
The new shot clock also has taken the press away as everyone now is playing faster and it’s not such a shock

One reason I hate the new shot clock it needs to go back to 45. Allows for more strategy and variety of play
This post was edited on 2/19/19 at 1:13 pm
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
20386 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

and you tend to get called for too many fouls to keep the pace up + the other team beats you with free throws
Nah, once you commit to running the press, the refs call it loose. That's always been the case. Otherwise, those 90's Arkansas teams would have fouled out, as would the old Georgetown teams, and others that do it.

It's like defensive pass interference on teams that play tight man coverage all the time, or a baseball pitcher that lives on painting the edge of the plate. They let a lot of stuff go, so the game gets in.
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35503 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 1:32 pm to
There was no shot clock in the 60's.

Most teams would slowly dribble the ball up.

Yet in 1964, UCLA won the Championship with Final Four scores of 95-90, 90-84 and 98-83. The third place game that year was 100-90.

People think we need a shot clock because of old strategies like Dean Smith holding the ball.

But UCLA was scoring more points than teams do today.

No shot clock allows for far more strategy. If you want to hold the ball, fine...but now we're going to force you to change with the press.

Every team should be able to play as they want and the best style will prevail.
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
119144 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 1:34 pm to
Nolan got the credit, Pitino was doing it at UK in 89.
Posted by redfishfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2015
4412 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

One reason I hate the new shot clock it needs to go back to 45. Allows for more strategy and variety of play


Really the only offense it takes away is continuity motion which is more of a HS offense anyway. For college teams continuity motions are easy to scout and defend. Most teams have gone to spacing and principle based offenses with a few sets mixed in because film has allowed for scouting to get so good.
Posted by TnMountaineer
Minglewood
Member since Aug 2018
3490 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 2:25 pm to
What happened to Nolan anyways? He was a great coach and bam..shown the door. I was too young to know the deal.
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
20386 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 2:27 pm to
quote:

There was no shot clock in the 60's.

Most teams would slowly dribble the ball up.

Yet in 1964, UCLA won the Championship with Final Four scores of 95-90, 90-84 and 98-83. The third place game that year was 100-90.

People think we need a shot clock because of old strategies like Dean Smith holding the ball.

But UCLA was scoring more points than teams do today.

No shot clock allows for far more strategy. If you want to hold the ball, fine...but now we're going to force you to change with the press.

Every team should be able to play as they want and the best style will prevail.
"People" (read: TV) wants fast, high scoring games, but you're right- college basketball was way more interesting and strategic before the shot clock.
No shot clock, but a 10 sec backcourt clock, and a 5 second call for being closely defended, and no 3 pt line. That's the most interesting, in my opinion.

You could try to go 4 Corners and take the air out of the ball, if you want; but the other team could trap and press, and force you to keep things moving. You could drop back into a zone to shut down their big men, but they could then shoot 20 ft jumpers, and if they hit, you get out of the zone. You could have a shot-blocker at the base of your defense, but then the other team could try to attack him and see if they can draw fouls.

Nowadays, there's no reason to have a defense capable of forcing tempo, as there's a tight shot clock anyway, and you don't get a defensive 5 second call anymore. There's no reason for an elite defensive center, when he's ineffective against the 3 pt shot. Same goes for most zones.
The game is still entertaining at times, but not nearly as thoughtful or strategic.
Posted by Hogwarts
Arkansas, USA
Member since Sep 2015
18051 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

The 95 SEC Final vs Kentucky


This was a wild game
Posted by Ham And Glass
Member since Nov 2016
1517 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 2:57 pm to
Mtn Brook High school in Birmingham used to run it and now run a version of it. With the exception of the last couple of years, where they have had a blue chip player and one other good player, they rotate through the entire bench, shuffling players in and out at a dizzying pace.

BTW, they've played in 5 of the last 6 state championships.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 3:03 pm to
For the press to be effective you have to call travel and carry by the book.
Posted by SeeeeK
some where
Member since Sep 2012
28052 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 3:06 pm to
NO

IN that system, you need everyone to give an effort on both ends, and being subbed for fresher players. so, no
Posted by BowDownToLSU
Livingston louisiana
Member since Feb 2010
19255 posts
Posted on 2/19/19 at 3:58 pm to
Retired... then now at age 77
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