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What’s the reasoning behind the automatic 1st down penalties?
Posted on 11/12/19 at 8:05 am
Posted on 11/12/19 at 8:05 am
I get the pass interference. And I get roughing the passer is to protect the QBs.
But the illegal use of hand penalty is dogsh*t. 3rd and 15 and this cheap penalty can bail a team out?
I guess the reasoning from the ref is that “hey, the defense got a competitive advantage during the play. Had the defense not commit the illegal hand to the face, the offense would’ve gotten the 1st down 100%. So we’re going to award the offense a 1st down”. But sometimes the offense still get the 1st down even with the infraction. So it’s NOT the only factor that determine the success/failure of the 1st down conversion.
I’d say illegal use of the hand may have a 15-20% impact on the play. It’s like finding out that you got over charged by 20% at a restaurant and the correct remedy is for the restaurant to give you an automatic free meal.
And why is ‘illegal use of hand’ is auto 1st down but offside is not? Offside has more impact than the former. And offside is more obvious than ‘illegal use of hand’ which is subjective sometimes because linemen are battling each other relentlessly and their hands are bound to touch one another’s helmet. The penalty should be 5yds and replay the down. Same with illegal contact.
End Rant
But the illegal use of hand penalty is dogsh*t. 3rd and 15 and this cheap penalty can bail a team out?
I guess the reasoning from the ref is that “hey, the defense got a competitive advantage during the play. Had the defense not commit the illegal hand to the face, the offense would’ve gotten the 1st down 100%. So we’re going to award the offense a 1st down”. But sometimes the offense still get the 1st down even with the infraction. So it’s NOT the only factor that determine the success/failure of the 1st down conversion.
I’d say illegal use of the hand may have a 15-20% impact on the play. It’s like finding out that you got over charged by 20% at a restaurant and the correct remedy is for the restaurant to give you an automatic free meal.
And why is ‘illegal use of hand’ is auto 1st down but offside is not? Offside has more impact than the former. And offside is more obvious than ‘illegal use of hand’ which is subjective sometimes because linemen are battling each other relentlessly and their hands are bound to touch one another’s helmet. The penalty should be 5yds and replay the down. Same with illegal contact.
End Rant
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 8:07 am
4
Posted on 11/12/19 at 8:12 am to PeteRose
So defenders don't commit intentional penalties to try to deny first downs.
Like holding. If a defender's beat off the line on 3rd and 15, he could just tackle someone from behind to save a first.
I think some of them shouldn't be automatic first downs, but pretty sure that's the reasoning.
Like holding. If a defender's beat off the line on 3rd and 15, he could just tackle someone from behind to save a first.
I think some of them shouldn't be automatic first downs, but pretty sure that's the reasoning.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 8:18 am to PeteRose
Why should a personal foul 15 yard penalty and a 10 yard penalty offset one another?
Posted on 11/12/19 at 8:22 am to PeteRose
Posted on 11/12/19 at 8:25 am to NorthGwinnettTiger
That smile would’ve been bigger had they held on vs NE.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 8:30 am to Rep520
While I agree for the most part the NFL defensive holding rule is an abortion with how much they call it and how much it impacts the game.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 8:49 am to hg
To avoid the same conundrum and also to avoid having to create rules for a billion different contextual possibilities.
It's logically silly but logistically expedient. The improvement in gameplay is outweighed by how complicated it would be to implement, so you just say they offset and start over.
It's logically silly but logistically expedient. The improvement in gameplay is outweighed by how complicated it would be to implement, so you just say they offset and start over.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 8:59 am to Tiguar
For Defensive Holding, they could have 2 versions of it. Just like they used to with the facemark. If Defensive Holding occurs and it was clear that it wouldn't have resulted in more than 5 yards or whatever amount of the penalty, then they can call it a non-automatic penalty. If it looks like it was possible that it would have been a 1st down that can call it an automatic.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:17 am to gobuxgo5
Yea, let’s give these incompetent fricks more room to make their own interpretation and enforcement of more new rules
What could go wrong?
What could go wrong?
Posted on 11/12/19 at 9:19 am to Mr. Hangover
Not sure, but it can be 3rd & 35 and somehow the defense gets called for holding 6 yards off the line of scrimmage while in prevent defense. "5 yard penalty, automatic first down... You're welcome Tom Brady"
How about a simple rule of 'It's an automatic first down with 10 yards or less to gain. But it's a normal 5 yard penalty when its more than 10 yards?"
How about a simple rule of 'It's an automatic first down with 10 yards or less to gain. But it's a normal 5 yard penalty when its more than 10 yards?"
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 9:22 am
Posted on 11/12/19 at 10:08 am to hg
quote:
Why should a personal foul 15 yard penalty and a 10 yard penalty offset one another?
Better yet, why do two penalties by the defense and one by the offense still offset? No matter how many each side has, as long as there is one by both teams they offset.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 11:47 am to gobuxgo5
quote:
Not sure, but it can be 3rd & 35 and somehow the defense gets called for holding 6 yards off the line of scrimmage while in prevent defense. "5 yard penalty, automatic first down... You're welcome Tom Brady"
Then everyone would hold on a 3rd & 35? The defense shouldn't need to hold when the offense needs a conversion that long. If they're holding, it's because they were beat and are worried that the offense will convert. That's a pretty solid reason to give a first down in my opinion.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 11:54 am to PeteRose
I agree, and I have argued this as well. With the exception of personal fouls and pass interference, I don’t think there should be any automatic first downs.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 12:00 pm to WuShock
quote:
Then everyone would hold on a 3rd & 35? The defense shouldn't need to hold when the offense needs a conversion that long. If they're holding, it's because they were beat and are worried that the offense will convert. That's a pretty solid reason to give a first down in my opinion.
If this is the argument, offensive holding (at least to prevent a sack) should include a loss of down as well.
This post was edited on 11/12/19 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 11/12/19 at 12:04 pm to ohiovol
quote:
If this is the argument, offensive holding on pass plays should include a loss of down as well.
I honestly don't know if I would have a problem with that. I can understand how it's frustrating for the defense, but the rules are slanted to help the offense, especially recently.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 2:52 pm to hg
Why should a personal foul 15 yard penalty and a 10 yard penalty offset one another?
this ^^^^^^^
in the past they did it the right way, asses both at the net 5 yards from previous spot is the result
this ^^^^^^^
in the past they did it the right way, asses both at the net 5 yards from previous spot is the result
Posted on 11/12/19 at 3:13 pm to Rep520
None of them should be automatic first downs.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 3:15 pm to WuShock
quote:
Then everyone would hold on a 3rd & 35?
Why? If the penalty gets called they’d get to redo the down. Nobody is going to intentionally commit a penalty in that situation.
Posted on 11/12/19 at 4:34 pm to keakar
quote:
Why should a personal foul 15 yard penalty and a 10 yard penalty offset one another?
this ^^^^^^^
in the past they did it the right way, asses both at the net 5 yards from previous spot is the result
a 5 yard illegal motion offsets a 55 yard pass interference
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