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re: Top 5 point guards in the NBA today
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:04 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:04 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
He definitely is elite. No doubt, IMO of course.
My definition of elite is Top 5 at your position, but I can see how if you have a different definition that you could consider him elite. Guys is amazing on the offensive end, but defense is not in his vocabulary.
1
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:07 pm to shel311
quote:
I think the point you're missing is that when asked why Kobe is the best in the game now, those who think that immediately say 5 rings.
Kobe being great in the playoffs is a big part of why people put him over LeBron, but not the only reason. You really can't directly compare their stat sheets because they are different players at different positions.
Skill-wise, Kobe is a notch above LeBron, but since LeBron is absolute freak specimen, it helps his game out.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:07 pm to shel311
quote:
I intentionally don't consider that. When I think of these top player or top 5 PG debates, it is strictly based on on the court production. That's just me though.
I am fine with that and have noticed it, but I just wanted to point out another element of the debate. Let's look at the stance of Baloo (who is my favorite poster on TD). He recently was involved in a baseball thread about MLB's historian disregarding sabermetrics. He says he is huge in stats for determining a player's worth, but he also thinks that stats may have gone too far and the "story" element needs to be considered as well. Sophandros (another top poster) believes that stats and story should complement one another. FWIW, Sophandros disagreed with the author of the article because he was too anti-stats in his article.
Sorry, I do not have a link, but it was a few days (this past Tuesday is my guess).
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:09 pm to shel311
quote:
i just think it's flawed logic that 3 rings and a Finals MVP gets him absolutely zero clout.
Maybe not as the best, obviously,b ut it doesn't even allow him to jump over other guys.
Part of the problem is that maybe Parker was probably not the best player on his team for all of their championship years (expect probably in 2007).
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:10 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
Westbrook is underrated on this board. He's freakishly athletic.
Yeah, I don't think he has the same intuition as some of the other guys, but I think he is the most athletic and explosive basketball player I have ever seen.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:13 pm to GamecockAlum
quote:
Kobe being great in the playoffs is a big part of why people put him over LeBron
But Parker gets nothing for a Finals MVP?
That's the part I don't understand.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:14 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
et's look at the stance of Baloo (who is my favorite poster on TD). He recently was involved in a baseball thread about MLB's historian disregarding sabermetrics
We agree on Baloo, lol.
I read that thread, but it was like 2 days after it was started so I didn't wanna bump it. But it was a great read. I do agree about the story element, but I feel like it just needs to be in context.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:14 pm to GamecockAlum
quote:
My definition of elite is Top 5 at your position, but I can see how if you have a different definition that you could consider him elite. Guys is amazing on the offensive end, but defense is not in his vocabulary.
Personally, I do not care for the top 5 idea. For example, are the current top five centers elite? No.
Part of the reason that I like Nash so much is that he is so much fun to watch. His passing is phenominal, his shooting is excellent, and he just passes the eye test for me. I want to put him at the number one point guard because I enjoy watching him play so much, but that may a stretch (but not a big one).
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:17 pm to shel311
quote:
But Parker gets nothing for a Finals MVP?
That's the part I don't understand.
People give Parker his props, but no one has ever said he's the best at his position much less in the league in general.
That;'s the difference. Kobe also has 2 Finals MVPs and pretty much has always stepped up his game in the playoffs. Outside of one postseason, you can't say the same for LeBron.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:20 pm to GamecockAlum
Paul
Westbrook
Rose
Williams
Nash
Westbrook
Rose
Williams
Nash
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:24 pm to GamecockAlum
no way i put CP3 above Rose, Westbrook, or Deron.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:28 pm to shel311
quote:
But why does virtually everyone seem to assume that Rose is better than Westbrook?
I never quite understood that.
Westbrook is very easily arguably as good as Rose.
I know Westbrook is very good, but imo after watching the hornets play against both guards I feel Rose is slightly better than Westbrook. They are both crazy athletes but i think Rose is just a little more under control in his ballhandling
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:36 pm to Sammobile
Another thing that may hurt Westbrook a little is the fact that he is the number two option on his team. Paul, Williams, Rose, and Nash are all their team's best player.
The way I am trying to rank the point guards is trying to isolate their team from it and imagine if they were all on a team where they are the go-to-guy with not too many good options, such as Williams on the Nets or Nash on the Suns. I feel Rondo would comparatively struggle because he needs his teammates to score, and he can thrive on a team like Boston, LA, Miami, Orlando, etc., but I think he would have trouble on his own. Otherwise, I am not too sure, but I am may have changed my mind again from my earlier post dramatically.
Top point guards (maybe, but I will change my mind again):
1. Paul
2. Rose
3. Nash
4. Williams
5. Westbrook
6. Rondo
Never mind, I just cannot figure it out. I will just call them elite and give up on figuring it out.
The way I am trying to rank the point guards is trying to isolate their team from it and imagine if they were all on a team where they are the go-to-guy with not too many good options, such as Williams on the Nets or Nash on the Suns. I feel Rondo would comparatively struggle because he needs his teammates to score, and he can thrive on a team like Boston, LA, Miami, Orlando, etc., but I think he would have trouble on his own. Otherwise, I am not too sure, but I am may have changed my mind again from my earlier post dramatically.
Top point guards (maybe, but I will change my mind again):
1. Paul
2. Rose
3. Nash
4. Williams
5. Westbrook
6. Rondo
Never mind, I just cannot figure it out. I will just call them elite and give up on figuring it out.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:38 pm to GamecockAlum
quote:
That;'s the difference. Kobe also has 2 Finals MVPs and pretty much has always stepped up his game in the playoffs.
Kobe has been great most playoffs but this is the wrong year to say that... game 7 of last year is still fresh in most people's minds
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:40 pm to Sammobile
quote:
I know Westbrook is very good, but imo after watching the hornets play against both guards I feel Rose is slightly better than Westbrook. They are both crazy athletes but i think Rose is just a little more under control in his ballhandling
That is certainly logical and plausible. I pretty much agree. I'll take Rose if forced to, but don't see much of a difference in both overall.
This post was edited on 3/24/11 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:41 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Never mind, I just cannot figure it out. I will just call them elite and give up on figuring it out.
Lol yup.
If I had to make a top 5 or 6 every day, it'd be different every day.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:45 pm to shel311
Same. I moved Williams down three spots in a matter of 20 minutes. All I believe is the top four are Williams, Paul, Rose, and Nash followed by Westbrook and Rondo. I do not want to put Rose number one for some though.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:46 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
I do not want to put Rose number one for some though.
It's weird cause there are so many awesome PGs today, and I'm the same way, I don't wanna put any of em at #1.
Oddly enough, I put 2 of em at #1.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:46 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Paul, Williams, Rose, and Nash are all their team's best player.
That ain't saying much for Williams and Nash though.
Posted on 3/24/11 at 2:47 pm to GamecockAlum
or Paul
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