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re: Ryan Howard struck out twice tonight in 4 at bats
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:06 pm to TigerPhan27
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:06 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
no he is in that spot b/c he's proven he can HIT. That's where we differ. The driving in of runs is irrlevant.
You drive in runs because you can hit. All your arguments are redundant.
Juan Pierre is a career .300 hitter? Could he drive in 100 runs in a season?
quote:
uh not so much. What the hell is moxy? Could you show me the moxy leaders this year? Quantify moxy for me? Who are these moxy guys? Do they have IT
Some people cant handle pressure. See your boy Adam Dunn who's already crappy AVG drops when runners are on base.
quote:
You want the list of top 5 "clutch" hitters of all time by "clutch" numbers
Which are categorized by what?
quote:
Stellar. oh notice no David Ortiz no matter how "clutch" Peter Gammons told you he was.
2
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:07 pm to LSUsmartass
quote:
should RLOB be right beside RBI in the major stats line
no, that just means a lot of guys in front of you are on base alot.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:09 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
no, that just means a lot of guys in front of you are on base alot.
But it could solidify your clutch argument, except this would bring it several steps further.
And it might even bring the "RBIs is not important" argument further
This post was edited on 7/13/08 at 7:10 pm
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:09 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Juan Pierre is a career .300 hitter? Could he drive in 100 runs in a season?
well batting average is pretty lame as well. I guess if he slugged .550 and hit 4th in the cubs lineup he probably would
quote:
Some people cant handle pressure. See your boy Adam Dunn who's already crappy AVG drops when runners are on base
how do you know, can you get inside people's heads? I can look at 125 years of data and prove my point. Now you go jump in some "unclutch" people's heads and prove they got out b/c of the "pressure"
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:11 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
Joe Carter twice drove in 100 runs with OBP under .300 and OPS under .700
But wait, great hitters can only drive in runs I thought?
TigerPhan:
quote:
yes he has proven he is a good hitter, again not b/c he can knock in runs, because he can hit
This post was edited on 7/13/08 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:12 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
well batting average is pretty lame as well. I guess if he slugged .550 and hit 4th in the cubs lineup he probably would
So now slugging is the only measure of a great hitter?
This post was edited on 7/13/08 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:12 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
how do you know, can you get inside people's heads? I can look at 125 years of data and prove my point. Now you go jump in some "unclutch" people's heads and prove they got out b/c of the "pressure"
*insert stereotypical accountant joke here
You and RMCC have a lot more in common than either of you will ever admit to.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:13 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
You want the list of top 5 "clutch" hitters of all time by "clutch" numbers
Which are categorized by what?
clutch = winEx - LMLVW.
I'm not trying to be a dick here. Like 10 years ago when I was too busy at keggers and fricking random snaks and just casually watched games I would jerk off if Sammy Sosa had 150 RBI's. But when I really got into the game and took the time to read a lot about it. Especially about the numbers of the game which is the best thing about baseball I realized most of the stuff we look at is poo. It's just the shite we see every day when we watch a game or play fantasy baseball so we just accept it as oh yeah player x must be good he is hitting .301. or player B is awesome b/c he has 104 RBI
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:13 pm to LSUsmartass
quote:
So now slugging is the only measure of a great hitter?
nope. OBP, and on top of that OPS. Those two numbers tell you infinitely more than BA does.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:15 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
But wait, great hitters can only drive in runs I thought?
TigerPhan:
quote:
yes he has proven he is a good hitter, again not b/c he can knock in runs, because he can hit
That doesn't mean a manager could have a guy in the wrong postion in the lineup. Soriano hits leadoff.
quote:
yes he has proven he is a good hitter, again not b/c he can knock in runs, because he can hit
Yes exactly, he sucked those years but he still drove in runs, thus driving in runs did not make him a great hitter
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:16 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
well batting average is pretty lame as well. I guess if he slugged .550 and hit 4th in the cubs lineup he probably would
So what is Adam Dunn's excuse?
He's spent the majority of his career hitting in the middle of the order of a pretty good offensive club in a great offensive ball park.
A career 901OPS
yet his BA RISP drops 20 points from his career BA
He's never driven in more than 106 runs, yet he continually hits 40 HR's a year.
You are saying that is because no one gets on base in front of him?
It has nothing to do with the fact that he hits .223 with RISP?
Dude is the king of hitting the solo HR that never matters.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:17 pm to LSUsmartass
quote:
So now slugging is the only measure of a great hitter?
uggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg.
the point is you cannot take 1 stat, any one stat and judge a player. There are some that would be better indicators than others. RBI may be one of the worst to take by itself.
who's better
Player A .300 BA strikes out once every 18 AB's
Player B .247 BA strikes out once every 3 AB's
which guy do you want in your lineup?
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:18 pm to Lester Earl
Lester, you've found one good example of the point you're making. I see your reasoning.
I think others are looking at these numbers from a league wide standpoint.
I think others are looking at these numbers from a league wide standpoint.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:23 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
That doesn't mean a manager could have a guy in the wrong postion in the lineup. Soriano hits leadoff.
Dude, make up your mind.
You say that great hitters drive in runs because they are great hitters.
Now its about where in the lineup you hit?
and yeah, Soriano hits leadoff.
It has nothing to do with:
batting leadoff: .295 career
batting 3rd: .260 career(152 games)
batting 5th: .268 career(144 games)
those are all just random numbers
quote:
Yes exactly, he sucked those years but he still drove in runs, thus driving in runs did not make him a great hitter
so how did he drive in over 100 runs? randomly im guessing will be your answer
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:24 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
He's spent the majority of his career hitting in the middle of the order of a pretty good offensive club in a great offensive ball park.
a few season they were in the bottom of scoring.
in 2005 they lead the league in scoring, he hit behind Freel, OBP .330, Griffey played 100 games, Casey pretty good, W.Pena played 99 games.
you also fail to mention the real key point with Adam dunn in the "clutch" His BA drops 20 points but his OBP goes up 35 points. What does that suggest to you?
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:27 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
You say that great hitters drive in runs because they are great hitters.
no dude, stay with me. Managers put who they think are their great hitters in the middle. Now if they have good people in front of them their great hitting will drive in runs if no one is on it won't. If you put an average hitter in a postion with a shite ton of people on base all year he will drive in runs, doesn't make him a great hitter.
quote:
Now its about where in the lineup you hit?
isn't that painfully obvious?
quote:
so how did he drive in over 100 runs? randomly im guessing will be your answer
Jack clark was on base 45% of time oh and Tony Gwynn too
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:27 pm to LfcSU3520
No, no, no...I see where you and knat are coming from, RBIs are a situational consequence of a hitters already great ability. You're saying that a guy is going to hit regardless if there are runners on base or not, and the fact that there are runners on base when a batter gets a hit shouldn't be celebrated as much.
This post was edited on 7/13/08 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:28 pm to LSUsmartass
if you want to judge a player individually it only makes sense to judge him on something that he can do individually.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:28 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
Lester, you've found one good example of the point you're making. I see your reasoning.
Not really one.
You are telling me that Josh Hamilton doesn't have a knack for driving in runs?
his AVG with RISP goes up nearly 30 points from his regular AVG?
is that random? because people are on base?
it just so happens to equate to 99 RBI
its not just one player. Look at the great hitters in the league, and most of their BA RISP spikes compared to their normal BA.
every player no matter where you hit in a lineup has a chance to drive in runs. RISP can tell you how good/bad they are.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:29 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
his AVG with RISP goes up nearly 30 points from his regular AVG
he's played like 200 games.
lets see what his "clutchness" is after like 1800 games
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