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re: Ryan Howard struck out twice tonight in 4 at bats
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:45 pm to LSUsmartass
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:45 pm to LSUsmartass
Side note, neither of those two players will ever sniff those numbers. Molina topped out at .786 and is on the way down.
But that has nothing to do with this argument, so continue.
But that has nothing to do with this argument, so continue.
0
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:45 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
Lsusmartass rathers bengie molina
You agree with batting Soriano lead off?
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:47 pm to LSUsmartass
quote:
You agree with batting Soriano lead off?
not at all, his OBP isn't very good.
the most optimal lineup would have him batting like 7th.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:49 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
Driving in the run is not what makes the guy good, the fact that he was in a RBI place in the lineup shows that he is good
with your points, you are stating the obvious., and you are actually saying the same thing we are trying to say, and dont even knwo it.
He is in that spot because he has proven he can drive in runs.
Good hitters drive in runs because they have proven that they can do that, thus the managers put them in position to drive in runs.
yet you keep trying to discount that by saying that they cant help who gets on base....Well, its a 2 part thing. The teammate must get on base before anyone can be driven in.
It still takes talent and moxy to drive in runners. Some people are good at it, and some people arent.
quote:
b/c it's totally random
right, its totally random that David Ortiz drives in more runs because he hits better with RISP than Adam Dunn does.
and its totally random that Ortiz career AVG goes up with RISP and Dunn goes down
This post was edited on 7/13/08 at 6:50 pm
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:54 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
right, its totally random that David Ortiz drives in more runs because he hits better with RISP than Adam Dunn does.
and its totally random that Ortiz career AVG goes up with RISP and Dunn goes down
ok, but RBIs are not the best way to quantify this. Not at all
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:54 pm to Lester Earl
Lets get back to the original argument, RBIs is an overblown, overrated stat...which I disagree with, just so we're clear on where I stand.
I'll ask this to the people that agree with the above statement, should runners LOB be a more important stat?
I'll ask this to the people that agree with the above statement, should runners LOB be a more important stat?
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:54 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
He is in that spot because he has proven he can drive in runs
no he is in that spot b/c he's proven he can HIT. That's where we differ. The driving in of runs is irrlevant.
quote:
It still takes talent and moxy to drive in runners. Some people are good at it, and some people arent.
uh not so much. What the hell is moxy? Could you show me the moxy leaders this year? Quantify moxy for me? Who are these moxy guys? Do they have IT
quote:
right, its totally random that David Ortiz drives in more runs because he hits better with RISP than Adam Dunn does
dude just do some research and you see the extreme variance in "clutch hitting" from year to year.
You want the list of top 5 "clutch" hitters of all time by "clutch" numbers
1)Mark Grace
2)Toby Harrah
3)Jason Kendall
4)Kent Herbek
5)Matt Lawton.
Stellar. oh notice no David Ortiz no matter how "clutch" Peter Gammons told you he was.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:56 pm to LSUsmartass
quote:
Lets get back to the original argument, RBIs is an overblown, overrated stat
smartass i just can't see how you don't think that the RBI's importance has diminished sizably with the advent of smarter more situation specific stats.
we've given examples in this thread, but you still haven't offered anything as to why the RBI should still be extremely relevant.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:57 pm to Lester Earl
Also, there's really one reason Howard is having a down year. Luck. His plate discipline stats are all right at his career averages. He's hitting a tad less line drives and his walk rate is down, but it's his BABIP that is significantly worse than his career numbers. As soon as that corrects itself, so will the rest of his numbers.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:58 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
ok, but RBIs are not the best way to quantify this. Not at all
No, prob not.
but to say that it is totally random is stupid.
A coach doesnt plug a hitter in the 3 hole hoping he is going to drive in runs. That hitter has proven time and again that he can do that.
It's not like, "oh, this guy hits .300, he can bat 3rd and have the same amount of RBI's as another guy that is a career .300 hitter."
sure it matters who gets on base before, but not every players BA RISP is equal or greater than his normal BA.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:58 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
uh not so much. What the hell is moxy? Could you show me the moxy leaders this year? Quantify moxy for me? Who are these moxy guys? Do they have IT
awesome. I know that Ortiz moxied to the tune of 5.4 last year, which was only eclipsed by Hanley Ramirez's score of 5.7. This year however, Hamilton is blowing away everyone with his moxy grade of 6.3.
Lester, good hitters are good hitters.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 6:59 pm to TigerPhan27
And if clutch were like a real thing that you had talent to do, you would probably be "Clutch" consistantly right? Like Randy Johnson consistantly has a high k/9. Maddux consistantly has a low BB/9 every single year. Those are things you can actually control. So a "clutch" hitter should be "clutch" consistantly right? Why doesn't that happen? David Ortiz the most clutch of the clutchiest has had exactly one season considered at the top of the "clutch" list. Why did he stop being clutch? All his other stats stayed the same? What had happened?
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:00 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
That hitter has proven time and again that he can do that.
yes he has proven he is a good hitter, again not b/c he can knock in runs, because he can hit
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:01 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
sure it matters who gets on base before, but not every players BA RISP is equal or greater than his normal BA.
show me a list of guys who consistantly lead in BARISP.
i can show you a list that consistantly lead in k/9.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:01 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
we've given examples in this thread, but you still haven't offered anything as to why the RBI should still be extremely relevant.
Where did I say extremely relevant? Its just another stat, but should be weighted with importance just like it has always been. I am disagreeing with people who are wanting to strip away relevance, I am not wanting to blow it up into a larger indicator than what it already is.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:03 pm to LSUsmartass
quote:
Its just another stat, but should be weighted with importance just like it has always been.
a major reason why it always has been, which isn't true b/c they did away with it back in the early 1900's b/c even then they kinda realized it wasn't really all that cool, is because in 1877 you really couldn't track much more than RBI
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:04 pm to LSUsmartass
well right now everytime i turn on baseball tonight, some analyst says that so and so player is great because he has more RBIs than someone else.
That's way too much importance already. You see someone's stat lines and you see two of the three most worthless hitting stats. BA HR RBIs.
That's way too much importance already. You see someone's stat lines and you see two of the three most worthless hitting stats. BA HR RBIs.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:05 pm to TigerPhan27
quote:
is because in 1877 you really couldn't track much more than RBI
but for some reason as we keep going, more and more people are slow to accept counterintuitive thinking, even when the proof is in front of their face.
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:05 pm to TigerPhan27
I'll ask this question again, should RLOB be right beside RBI in the major stats line? Can this be some sort of middle ground?
Posted on 7/13/08 at 7:06 pm to TigerPhan27
Joe Carter twice drove in 100 runs with OBP under .300 and OPS under .700. So he was pretty much a good Neifi Perez season oh with 100 RBI's
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