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re: Quick Recap of LA HS divisional revamp

Posted on 3/7/13 at 11:03 am to
Posted by Choupique19
The cheap seats
Member since Sep 2005
65415 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 11:03 am to
quote:

Do we need to create a rule? Is that just life?


I don't want the split. Just pointing out where there are advantages for specific schools over others. And I heard a few principals mention that "Whether this holds up or not, at least now people might start taking some of these issues seriously and make some adjustments to level the playing field."
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
30278 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 11:04 am to
Damn right everyone needs to win and get a trophy in today's world.
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
30278 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 11:08 am to
The playing field will never be level......coach odom will want to start kicking west monroe, neville, etc out next because they will then be the ones with the competitive advantage.....how many years of these schools winning in a row will it take before they are on the fire?
Posted by Choupique19
The cheap seats
Member since Sep 2005
65415 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 11:11 am to
quote:

coach odom will want to start kicking west monroe, neville, etc out next because they will then be the ones with the competitive advantage.....


Well West Monroe did steal the nation's best lineman last year. The LHSAA knew it, and levied a heavy punishment....

head coach must sit out the first 2 regular season games.


The kid was elgible for every game for 2 years.



This is why the LHSAA is broken and needs to be fixed.
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
30278 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 11:20 am to
quote:

This is why the LHSAA is broken and needs to be fixed.


Enforce the rules in place correctly then.

The fix they put in with prop 18 breaks the LHSAA worse than ever.
Posted by Vlad The Inhaler
Moose Jaw, SK
Member since Sep 2008
3160 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 11:36 am to
quote:

It was driven by the Winnfield Prinicpal who was butt-hurt over being skull drug in the championship game by Curtis 2 years ago. Like they are the only ones in that club. The public schools, operating under the everyone gets a trophy mindset, all voted Curtis and Evangel off their island.


Thanks
Posted by TheGodfather
baton rouge
Member since Feb 2007
640 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 11:40 am to
you can name any list of private or public schools that you want to, but it really only comes down to 2 schools. evangel and john curtis. the smaller classifications (3a 2a 1a) will get blamed for not wanting to play eca and jcc, but its the 4a and 5a schools that are to blame for all of this happening. they really are the only schools with the numbers to compete with those schools, but they are just as scared as anyone else. when you were allowed to play up to whatever classification you wanted jcc was 4a and evangel played in 5a. both of them won state championships if im not mistaken. after a few years of that they all banded together and voted against allowing them to play up to whatever classification you wanted to. i am against the split in the fashion it happened it, but something has to be done about whats going on. i know there are public schools that recruit just as much as private schools do, but its much harder and comes with a lot more red tape. im not really sure what the best solution is, but at least this is a step in the right direction. although it may not be a very good step. public schools need private schools and vice versa. hopefully cooler head will prevail in time and reasonable solutions are made. i know some public school parishes are talking about making the parish open enrollment. meaning once you leave the 8th grade you can choose any high school in the parish without having to sit out. any transfer after that you lose a year of eligibility. it can actually be used with academics as well as athletics. i know people probably dont agree with that suggestion but im sure there just as many people that would use the academic side as the athletic side.
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
30278 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 11:46 am to
quote:

i know some public school parishes are talking about making the parish open enrollment.


I'd be willing to listen to proposals on this if prop 18 was canned......proposals with real research and evidence might I add.....not just emotionally driven accusations.
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49400 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

Just pointing out where there are advantages for specific schools over others.


The data simply doesn't hold up. At the end of the day, you can use all the anecdotal evidence you want and it can be countered with other anecdotal evidence.

But the data doesn't support the allegation.
Posted by TheGodfather
baton rouge
Member since Feb 2007
640 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

The data simply doesn't hold up. At the end of the day, you can use all the anecdotal evidence you want and it can be countered with other anecdotal evidence. But the data doesn't support the allegation.


honest question here. do you really think that John Curtis Christian and Delcambre High are on level playing fields?
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49400 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

do you really think that John Curtis Christian and Delcambre High are on level playing fields?


No, but not because the issue that this proposal addresses.

I think the "selective admission" argument is nonsensical red herring. If you believe that athletic ability is consistently distributed among a gross population, then it will not matter where a generic, smaller population is pulled from, the distribution will be the same. The only way that distribution changes is if there is selective targeting of a certain trait (here athletic ability). In sports, we call that recruiting and the LHSAA has an obligation to investigate and punish those who participate. But the area of selection doesn't statistically matter unless there is targeting. Hence why the entire argument is misleading.

The advantage that John Curtis has over other schools is the same advantage that West Monroe has over other schools, is the same advantage that Haneysville has over other schools. There is a sense of community and dedicate effort to the sport that simply doesn't exist with most schools.

And the data from both public and private schools backs this up.
Posted by LSU316
Rice and Easy Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
30278 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

There is a sense of community and dedicate effort to the sport that simply doesn't exist with most schools.


I've come to realize that people would rather act with emotion rather than acknowledge this simple fact.
Posted by Choupique19
The cheap seats
Member since Sep 2005
65415 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 1:12 pm to
quote:

But the data doesn't support the allegation


So 80 private schools, against over 200 public schools win 50% of the football state championships. I would say that data points to the private schools having an advantage.
Posted by TheGodfather
baton rouge
Member since Feb 2007
640 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 1:42 pm to
quote:

There is a sense of community and dedicate effort to the sport that simply doesn't exist with most schools.


while there is a lot of truth to that, you and i both know that there is a whole lot more that goes into it. if it were that easy, everybody would do it. if you take all the students at jcc starting in whatever grades they have and move those students to delcambre. take all the kids in the same grade at delcambre and move them to jcc. coaches, community, support and everything else stays in place. you honestly think the results will be the same once those kids reach high school? you can really insert any public and private school. im just using those as examples.
Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
54792 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 1:54 pm to
J.T.'s gonna coach them boys up...
Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49400 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

So 80 private schools, against over 200 public schools win 50% of the football state championships. I would say that data points to the private schools having an advantage.


Your numbers are wrong. Since it went to 5 classifications, a public school wins the State Championship 57% of the time compared to 43% with the privates. When you look at State Finalists it's almost 2 to 1 in favor of public schools. And when you isolate repeat state champs, of all teams winning a state Champioship in this time frame, 70% are public schools.

Posted by Antonio Moss
The South
Member since Mar 2006
49400 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

if it were that easy, everybody would do it


It's not easy, that's the point. You have to have tremendous community support and a stable, intensely dedicated coaching staff - just like West Monroe and Haynesville.
Posted by Choupique19
The cheap seats
Member since Sep 2005
65415 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

Your numbers are wrong.


They've been talking about it a good bit here on local radio, and they said that since 1991, when the 5A classification was made, that nearly 50% of the state titles, in all classes, have been won by private school. But I'll trust your numbers.

It still shows that a small minorit (private schools) are able to compete near evenly with the large majority (public schools). There are many factors for it. As others have stated before, selected entrance is one of those. 3A is a big example of schools that will keep their total attendance at a certain number so that they don't have to move up in classification. How is it that a school like Parkview, sitting in the middle of a big city with poor public schools, stays in the 3A classification year after year?
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
103972 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 3:14 pm to
quote:

How is it that a school like Parkview, sitting in the middle of a big city with poor public schools, stays in the 3A classification year after year?


There are a shite-ton of private schools in BR.

The only three which are 4A or larger are Catholic schools (Catholic-BR, St. Joseph, St. Michael) which have a huge feeder system.

There's also Redemptorist, which was once a 4A but has quickly collapsed back to 1A enrollment.
Posted by supatigah
CEO of the Keith Hernandez Fan Club
Member since Mar 2004
90055 posts
Posted on 3/7/13 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

How is it that a school like Parkview, sitting in the middle of a big city with poor public schools, stays in the 3A classification year after year?



1) they dont want to get any bigger

2) they have a student:teacher ratio figure written in their school charter that they cant go above

3) they are land locked and dont want to move

4) it is expensive to build anything in Baton Rouge right now


There is so much disinformation and misinformation in this entire argument. If the LHSAA really wants to address the athletic factories then they should:
1) eliminate practicing during school in the offseason

2) regulate the amount of time someone on the faculty can spend with the kids in the offseason

there is a very prominent private school that has a 90 min PE right before lunch. They practice football for that 90 mins everyday they have a full day of school. That is in addition to practice after school during the season. So conservatively estimate that is the equivalent of another 100-120 90 min practices during the school year. There is your "competitive advantage"

It isnt recruiting, it is across the board dedication (by athletes, parents, coaches, admins etc) to a common goal and the ability to construct your curriculum around football (private) and not your football around the curriculum (publics)
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