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re: Not a single player in the National League is hitting .300
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:24 pm to Madking
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:24 pm to Madking
quote:
Wrong again
About what? I love how you never say, you just say someone is lying or wrong or doesn’t understand yet never explain why. I explained why you didn’t understand if you can’t counter that with anything but saying I’m wrong I have no choice but to conclude you don’t understand
1
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:25 pm to Madking
quote:
Wow, you’re insane
Feel free to explain why BA is better than OBP anytime
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:26 pm to H-Town Tiger
Like I said, trying to move the goalpost because the original argument has failed.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:27 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
which was all well and good back in the 70s when we didnt have computers and statistical analysis but now we do and that allows us to dive deeper and try to find ways that more accurately convey performance
That's great. But I think the problem is most people don't understand what they are looking at when they dive deeper, how to explain it, or to be able to delineate one stat from another or the correlation between the two. The more you compound statistics, the more you have to understand what you are comparing.
A few responses ago, someone said that a BA/OBP of 250/400 is better than 300/350. I get that it is exaggerated for illustration, but what stood out to me is that the 250/400 guy would be way above average in walks per at bat and OBP. That isn't a legitimate example or talking point. When does that separation become meaningful?
My observation is just that people know that more advanced stats can provide greater insight, but don't know which questions they are actually trying to answer. The result is they adamantly dismiss BA, but don't really know where to go from there.
BA is actually a great stat because of its simplicity. I would compare it to price/sqft in a housing market, gross profit% for a business, or even the outside temperature. It is a practical starting point in statistical analysis.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:28 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
love how you never say, you just say someone is lying or wrong or doesn’t understand yet never explain why
the next time he defends his position will be the first time
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:32 pm to Lester Earl
False
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:33 pm to OceanMan
quote:
BA is actually a great stat because of its simplicity. I would compare it to price/sqft in a housing market, gross profit% for a business, or even the outside temperature. It is a practical starting point in statistical analysis.
No, its not. That is just how your mind is trained. It provides very little context to the true profile of the player.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:36 pm to OceanMan
The problem is people who don’t know anything about sports are always looking for a singular stat to explain everything. They always think the new thing is the end all when really it’s just an updated regurgitation of something old.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:40 pm to Madking
quote:
The problem is people who don’t know anything about sports are always looking for a singular stat to explain everything.
Jay Johnson winning a 2nd championship all but ran your off the the Rant board. There isn't a person on this site that thinks you know anything about sports
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:40 pm to OceanMan
quote:except they do. for batters, its how to score more runs. and OBP has been statistically proven to be better at predicting runs over a large sample size
but don't know which questions they are actually trying to answer
quote:and again, thats all well and good. im not dismissive of it. batting average has its place in the same way that completion percentage has its place for QBs. it does tell a meangingful story. just not the entire story, and stats like OBP are better at doing so. saying no one is hitting over 300 doesnt matter much as opposed to league wide OBP taking a dive in the early 2010s and still having not recovered
It is a practical starting point in statistical analysis.
This post was edited on 7/13/25 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:41 pm to Lester Earl
Another lie
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:42 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
At the end of the day what you want is to score more runs than the other team.
which is accomplished when you
quote:
put the ball in play when they need to
quote:
To that you need people to get on base. BA does not demonstrate that. OBP does.
This is just more vague language that doesn't add any value. Clearly, you need to score more runs than the other team. OBP tells us two things, while BA is really only telling us one, which is useful. Which is my point, people think that advanced stats are superior, when in reality they are just more complex. That doesn't make the simpler metric obsolete. Different tools have different uses, and possessing an array of them can make an impossible job possible, but knowing when to use them is what determines skill, not just having access to them.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:44 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
How does that disprove the point that getting on base is what’s most important? If offense is down that says nothing about analytics, it just says offense is down. Same thing as someone said about the 70s. BA and runs were lower in the 70s offense was down
Not saying it disproves your statement. I actually agree. The people that don’t necessarily agree, in practice, are mlb execs.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:51 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
All Sabrmetrics is saying is OBP (on base percentage) is more important than batting avg not that lower ba leads to more runs. A player hitting.250 with a .400 OBP is more valuable than one hitting .300 with a .350 OBP
I agree with this 100%. Where I don’t agree with is that IMO batting average is down because people are going for power and not getting on base.
Players are paid because their slugging and OBP is up, I agree. But you can have a high batting avg and a high OBP. They are combined, not working against each other.
What’s being taught is basically to sit on pitches until you have one to hit out of the park. Instead of sitting on pitches ( walking) to get a pitch to get on base.
Everyone has always and will always love the long ball.
But not everyone is an elite hitter and you don’t need 9 elite hitters to win a championship. I just think it’s sad how low BAs are.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:53 pm to cubsfan5150
quote:
Not saying it disproves your statement. I actually agree. The people that don’t necessarily agree, in practice, are mlb execs.
While winning is good, execs also want to sell tickets, beer, and hotdogs. You sell those by getting people to the park, you get people to the park by hitting dingers. It is what it is.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:53 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
No, its not. That is just how your mind is trained.
Well, at least I am providing some insight as to how my mind is trained, while you are not.
quote:
It provides very little context to the true profile of the player.
And you are providing very little context as to what your goal is in using any stat beyond BA.
Again, my argument is that BA is useful, because it needs no context. A .300 batter gets a hit 3/10 times. A player with OBP of .300 gets on base 3/10 times, but we don't know how often he walks or gets a hit. You know how we could find out? Knowing the BA.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:53 pm to baldona
You get it
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:55 pm to OceanMan
As do you
Posted on 7/13/25 at 3:58 pm to Madking
quote:
The problem is people who don’t know anything about sports are always looking for a singular stat to explain everything.
Exactly. And its not just sports. I hear people talking about advanced profitability metrics and valuation multiples all the time that have little idea how to actually use them or what other relevant information they need to make it meaningful (like in a buyout, what's the term of the payment and how long are they going to make you work for them?).
That isn't to say they are worthless, its just people often don't take time to understand what they are talking about.
Posted on 7/13/25 at 4:00 pm to baldona
quote:
While winning is good, execs also want to sell tickets, beer, and hotdogs. You sell those by getting people to the park, you get people to the park by hitting dingers. It is what it is.
And attendance is down roughly 20% from less than 20 yrs ago. Viewership is likely down more than that, although that’s a rather analytical conversation.
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