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re: My Non-travel ball playing nephew just made the HS baseball team
Posted on 6/1/16 at 11:56 am to Newt Dobbs
Posted on 6/1/16 at 11:56 am to Newt Dobbs
quote:
My travel ball playing cousin is about to get either paid out the arse or a full ride to a D-1 school
Really? Where?
0
Posted on 6/1/16 at 11:57 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:Again not sure what you are arguing, I am not saying the elite travel ball teams are comparable to rec league teams. I am saying that there are many teams that are called "travel" ball teams only because parents can pay. They have no tryouts, they accept anyone, and they play in the lower divisions of the travel ball, these are the ones that are facing what amounts to travel ball teams. Also, if you put many of those kids in rec ball the level of competition increases, however, it is cooler for parents and kids to say their kid plays travel ball.
It's not even remotely close. I don't know how much youth baseball you watch...I have been coaching my kids for the last 6 years. They play rec and a few tournaments a year before all-stars but don't travel. There is a huge difference in the quality of teams in the tournaments and in their league, and the league they are in is easily the most competitive in the region. I'm just being honest here.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 11:58 am to bayoujd
quote:Umm, yes they do. You are trying to qualify for the national "world series" tournament.
Ding ding ding. In travel ball, if you lose, no big deal you can play next week in a new tournament. Travel ball teams aren't really playing with a long term, end of season goal in mind (like Dixie Youth, Little League and Babe Ruth teams that play in "win and advance, or lose and your season is over" tournaments).
Posted on 6/1/16 at 11:58 am to tduecen
quote:
Mainly because travel ball has become so watered down the competition is much like what they would find at their local parks. You still have teams that require tryouts and only select the best but many travel ball teams is just a coach who found a few parents willing to pay out the arse so their kids can have a custom jersey.
This. "Travel ball" has become "Daddy ball," especially over the last decade. Regardless of sport, it's not the team you play for, it's what you invest in it and get out of it, and it starts with coaching. Many of the kids playing travel ball or elite baseball get burned out and end up quitting in HS. Also, some kids develop later than others and pass up the ones that were once the dominant players for that age. This hold true for any sport really.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:00 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:Fixed.
as an incoming freshman Daddy ball FTW
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:00 pm to PrimeTime Money
Man, when you have a 12 year old who's playing travel ball and going to a separate dedicated hitting or pitching coach during the week, that's way too much. In high school, you can make your own decisions I guess. High school ball is cheap or free, so if you want to supplement that coaching with a little more, that's fine. It's not really the same as paying a lot of money to play travel ball and then still paying more money because you deem the coaching that your child is getting inadequate.
Of course it's not everybody. However, it's always the case that the worst ones define the culture as we know it.
quote:
Also, I'm not saying many parents don't take it too far. But those are specific parents, coaches, and teams. It's not travel ball as a whole.
Of course it's not everybody. However, it's always the case that the worst ones define the culture as we know it.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:01 pm to tduecen
quote:
Again not sure what you are arguing,
You said
quote:
travel ball has become so watered down the competition is much like what they would find at their local parks.
That is simply not true. The lowest level travel ball tournament is still going to have much better competition than rec leagues 99% of the time. That's reality.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:03 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Many high school players go to hitting and pitching coaches. How is getting personal instruction a sign that something is askew?
In my own experience, the guys who were going to get personal instruction on the side while in high school had psycho parents and they were the epitome of all that is wrong with the travel ball culture. The parents didn't think the coaches were doing enough so they went out and found someone who would gladly take their money to dick around for an hour twice a week.
If you're at a good high school program and you're going to training on the side, you're probably going to piss off your high school coaches and rightfully so. If what you're getting from them isn't good enough, don't play.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:03 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote:I believe it is....
That is simply not true. The lowest level travel ball tournament is still going to have much better competition than rec leagues 99% of the time. That's reality.
quote:I disagree after watching a few tournaments.
The lowest level travel ball tournament is still going to have much better competition than rec leagues 99% of the time.
we will just have to agree to disagree.... I am going by what I witnessed. The coaching is not much better than what I've seen in Rec leagues and the level of competition would be no different if those same kids played in Rec ball.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:03 pm to bayoujd
quote:
ding. In travel ball, if you lose, no big deal you can play next week in a new tournament. Travel ball teams aren't really playing with a long term, end of season goal in mind (like Dixie Youth, Little League and Babe Ruth teams that play in "win and advance, or lose and your season is over" tournaments).
So you've never been around travel ball in your life and don't know what you're talking about. Got it
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:04 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote:
The lowest level travel ball tournament is still going to have much better competition than rec leagues 99% of the time.
I call travel ball as well as league (rec) ball. Travel ball is always better talent. I just wish the "elite/travel" teams would play in leagues instead.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:04 pm to PortCityTiger24
It really is kind of sad what's happened to rec league baseball. I went out to watch a young cousin of mine recently and it was just terrible. They're even having to play games against teams at other parks because they don't have enough teams signed up.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:05 pm to hendersonshands
Around here they combined 8 to 12-year-old kids because they don't have enough. So many kids play on travel ball teams it has ruined it for everyone else. They used to have 6 teams and now down to two each with 12 or 13 kids
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:08 pm to hendersonshands
quote:Not all travel ball teams pay for a coach.
Man, when you have a 12 year old who's playing travel ball and going to a separate dedicated hitting or pitching coach during the week, that's way too much. In high school, you can make your own decisions I guess. High school ball is cheap or free, so if you want to supplement that coaching with a little more, that's fine. It's not really the same as paying a lot of money to play travel ball and then still paying more money because you deem the coaching that your child is getting inadequate.
Many of them are coaches by the dads on the team for free. Teams have to pay a tournament fee to play in tournaments.
Baseball academies have great instruction. They have former MLB players, former MLB hitting coaches, and pitching coaches, etc. And it's not like you're going every week. You might go twice a month. You take what you learned and practice until your next lesson.
You might pay $80 for an hour-long lesson. If you go twice a month, that's $160 per month for 1-on-1 instruction by a professional hitting coach.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:08 pm to slackster
quote:
Yeah but to say he is getting a full-ride for baseball is disingenuous. I played with a guy who got 90% and that is, by far, the most I've ever heard for a single player.
When I was a grad assistant, we actually had one guy that had 100%. We had to offer it to actually get him. Things worked out. He was a great pitcher for us, and now he's in AA for the Giants.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:13 pm to Jim Rockford
Tell us if he is on the team when the season starts in the Spring.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:14 pm to slackster
quote:Complete opposite experience on my end. The high school program in my area is very good. One of the best in the area. But that's because of the players. The coach is a hot-headed jackass.
In my own experience, the guys who were going to get personal instruction on the side while in high school had psycho parents and they were the epitome of all that is wrong with the travel ball culture. The parents didn't think the coaches were doing enough so they went out and found someone who would gladly take their money to dick around for an hour twice a week.
If you're at a good high school program and you're going to training on the side, you're probably going to piss off your high school coaches and rightfully so. If what you're getting from them isn't good enough, don't play.
The hitting coach at the baseball academy we went to in Houston is a former Astros hitting coach. These are real professionals.
Some MLB players like Carl Crawford go there for instruction during the summer. It was common to wait for Carl Crawford or Michael Bourn to get done with their lesson and you were up next. These aren't people who would take your money and "dick around" for an hour. The hitting coach was good to the point to where he could notice what you were doing wrong right away, calmly get you to fix it, and all of a sudden you can hit the ball again. He is really really good.
They are way more knowledgeable than your local high school coach.
This post was edited on 6/1/16 at 12:21 pm
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:14 pm to tress4pres
Don't assume "daddy ball" ends in high school. Have seen plenty of it.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:16 pm to devils1854
quote:
When I was a grad assistant, we actually had one guy that had 100%. We had to offer it to actually get him. Things worked out. He was a great pitcher for us, and now he's in AA for the Giants.
Damn, I'd imagine the team struggle elsewhere as a result. 100% to a guy who plays once a week leaves you 10.7 scholarships to go around to 8 positional players and the rest of your pitching staff.
Posted on 6/1/16 at 12:18 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote:
That is simply not true. The lowest level travel ball tournament is still going to have much better competition than rec leagues 99% of the time. That's reality.
Well I'm an umpire and have seen some really bad travel teams and some pretty good rec teams. The true elite teams are few and far between these days. What drives me nuts is the lack of coaching in travel ball, and coaches don't even know the rules. No emphasis on defense, base running or situations. Just calling pitches and focusing on hitting. Way too many errors and stupid mental mistakes. The art of the pick off move, bunting, hitting a cut off and even executing a simple run down have been lost.
I used to coach and even though we were considered a rec team by many we could compete with, and consistently beat, many travel teams. The travel teams we did play threw their aces at us because they didn't want to lose to us. We used it as an opportunity to get our pitchers reps and threw multiple kids. Even then, we still won more than we lost. We practiced more than we played, rarely made errors or mental mistakes, and picked off at least 1 runner every game. When we lost, we didn't beat ourselves.
My point is, it all depends on what you want. Some parents feel that travel ball is a way to get their kid noticed by a college or scout. However, most parents are unrealistic about their kid's ability and potential. Some feel they need to play travel ball just to make the HS team (or may be told that by their HS coach). Others just enjoy the competition, going out of town on weekends, and the overall experience. Myself, I felt that teaching the game and getting the kids prepared for HS was the most important. It seemed to work as every kid I coached who tried out for the HS team made it, and every one of them started on varsity for their high schools.
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