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Started By
Message
re: Michael Jordan Audio Surfaces: If Isiah Thomas Is On Dream Team, I Won’t Play
Posted on 5/26/20 at 1:57 pm to Bench McElroy
Posted on 5/26/20 at 1:57 pm to Bench McElroy
This isn't proof that MJ lied. MJ may have carefully tailored his remarks in a sly and not totally frank way, but, IMHO what he said is not a lie.
As another poster mentioned, there were other Dream Team members who expressed a desire to keep IT off of the team. MJ wasn't alone.
It was the US Olympic officials who decided to keep IT off of the team, probably because the determined that IT would damage the "unit cohesion" of the Dream Team.
This is similar to "Peer Ratings" in various military training schools. If your peers want you kicked off of the team, and say so to the Officials, you might get kicked off of the team.
As another poster mentioned, there were other Dream Team members who expressed a desire to keep IT off of the team. MJ wasn't alone.
It was the US Olympic officials who decided to keep IT off of the team, probably because the determined that IT would damage the "unit cohesion" of the Dream Team.
This is similar to "Peer Ratings" in various military training schools. If your peers want you kicked off of the team, and say so to the Officials, you might get kicked off of the team.
0
Posted on 5/26/20 at 1:59 pm to Bench McElroy
meh, not a big deal.
the whole documentary should be considered as "based on a true story" - a good bit of it is fake and romanticized
the whole documentary should be considered as "based on a true story" - a good bit of it is fake and romanticized
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:00 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Regardless of what’s said in The Last Dance, The Dream Team by Jack McCallum is the definitive work on the 1992 Olympic team and it’s formation.
That's where this is from. It's the source material for McCallum and exactly as MJ was quoted in the book.
I agree that book is great.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:04 pm to Bench McElroy
We all knew this.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:07 pm to Bench McElroy
The doc was propaganda
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:12 pm to Nonetheless
quote:
The doc was propaganda
quote:
the whole documentary should be considered as "based on a true story" - a good bit of it is fake and romanticized
I've really only seen takes like these (on this board and on social media) from known Lebron diehards.
Pretty interesting.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:13 pm to Rep520
quote:
This does contradict that he never brought Isiah up.
Lol the entire 'Last Dance' was a bunch of contradictions and lies.
This is just another lie which got exposed, no differently than MJ retiring because of the winning and pressure.
He retired because his gambling got his father kidnapped and killed.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:13 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
I've really only seen takes like these (on this board and on social media) from known Lebron diehards.
Pretty interesting.
so Lebron fans are ground in reality and not fantasy?
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
Come on slo, calling the doc "propaganda" is about as un-grounded/sensationalism-driven as it gets 
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:17 pm to NawlinsTiger9
i was joking about the lebron stuff, but the piece is clearly pro-Jordan propaganda
it was produced by MJ and he had final cut
it was produced by MJ and he had final cut
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:17 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
so Lebron fans are ground in reality and not fantasy?
Wut
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:18 pm to NawlinsTiger9
you seem like a smart enough guy to know the portrayal in the documentary wasn't accurate to reality
so me being a lebron fan should have no barring on calling for the truth
so me being a lebron fan should have no barring on calling for the truth
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
It was pro-Jordan and Jordan-centric because it was about him and he did a lot of memorable and awesome shite, but I think propaganda has to be inherently misleading by its definition.
It wasn't "fake", as one poster said. There were wayyy too many people involved giving direct quotes supporting the material.
I could understand not enjoying it because it's a rehash of all the Jordan tropes we've heard over the years.
It wasn't "fake", as one poster said. There were wayyy too many people involved giving direct quotes supporting the material.
I could understand not enjoying it because it's a rehash of all the Jordan tropes we've heard over the years.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:24 pm to rocket31
quote:
the portrayal in the documentary wasn't accurate to reality
I guess I'm just not seeing this part?
He had a couple of bad shooting games they glossed over, but factually inaccurate seems like a stretch, no?
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:31 pm to NawlinsTiger9
the part about his addiction to gambling? alcohol? cocaine? extramarital affairs?
ok jeff
ok jeff
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:38 pm to rocket31
quote:
the part about his addiction to gambling?
Was covered, no?
quote:
alcohol? cocaine? extramarital affairs?
uhh, I think you and I want different things out of a basketball documentary.
Even still, they didn't paint him as a saint. They barely talked about/to his wife and kids at all. It wasn't misleading, just omitted.
I don't know anything specific about Jordan's partying that I didn't see in a tabloid, but I truly don't care that 80s/90s NBA players drank and did drugs. That's not exactly groundbreaking stuff.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:40 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
It was pro-Jordan and Jordan-centric because it was about him and he did a lot of memorable and awesome shite, but I think propaganda has to be inherently misleading by its definition.
It wasn't "fake", as one poster said. There were wayyy too many people involved giving direct quotes supporting the material.
I could understand not enjoying it because it's a rehash of all the Jordan tropes we've heard over the years.
I don't think propaganda has to be misleading. It just requires bias, and when the primary subject of the film has creative control of the film's content, there's no way it can not be biased.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:47 pm to rocket31
quote:
the part about his addiction to gambling? alcohol? cocaine? extramarital affairs?
Woof
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:52 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
It wasn't "fake", as one poster said. There were wayyy too many people involved giving direct quotes supporting the material.
I enjoyed the doc. I think the "propaganda" talk is more about how a lot of what was asserted about MJ wasn't challenged.
MJ says he doesn't have a gambling problem. That's basically never challenged. When he laughed at the idea of Payton containing him, that's never challenged by some of his shooting in Game 4 and 6.
I wouldn't say propaganda, but the doc definitely didn't exist to challenge what MJ said at any point. That doesn't mean it was necessarily inaccurate, but it didn't choose to be a doc that attempted to challenge people's perception of MJ.
Posted on 5/26/20 at 2:53 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
I don't think propaganda has to be misleading. It just requires bias, and when the primary subject of the film has creative control of the film's content, there's no way it can not be biased.
Definitions vary slightly, but I think propaganda has a negative connotation at the least.
I look at it this way: every documentary or non-fiction work is going to have an inherent bias because whoever is making it has a viewpoint that they can't help but hold.
The only way to combat it is to give the opposing side a chance to refute, comment, or defend themselves.
This doc had every person imaginable from all sides of the Jordan spectrum on there to give their two cents. Even if you get clever with some editing, most of these are direct quotes supporting an event that we are watching.
I just don't see a ton of misleading or inauthentic persuasion.
Maybe people wanted a more Behind the Music approach where Jordan hits rock bottom with his wife? That sounds awful to me in a sports doc but to each his own.
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