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re: Let's talk about Tom Brady's last 8 playoff losses
Posted on 2/4/14 at 10:41 am to DelU249
Posted on 2/4/14 at 10:41 am to DelU249
quote:That is alot of gymnastics that have to take place in order to make your point
The variables are so off that's absurd
Rule changes, rosters, etc.
take it on a year to year and you'll see. TB in 2007 wasn't the same TB from 2003. You can't have years of elite
Performance tied to some playoff numbers when he wasn't the same QB.
TB was an 85 passer for a few years because he was playin with horseshite on O, was playing under different rules and the team was structured differently on O.
One thing does favor manning heavily, a lot of those poor performances and losses came to teams that won the Super Bowl that year
Pats twice IIRC, steelers 05, ravens, saints, Seahawks
The chargers game is the one that really sticks out
1
Posted on 2/4/14 at 10:46 am to lsupride87
TB throws 50 TDs in 2007, you're associating that playoff performance with his leel of play in 03 when he threw for half of that and waaay more INTs playing with different players, on a completely different team. If you want to talk about the drop in performance and consistency from regular season to playoffs then I'm really being practical, it would be one thing if TB didn't have a huge chunk of his career when he wasn't the same player. Manning has been an elite player pretty much from the word go.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 10:50 am to DelU249
Brady has had one year since 2004 where his rating was less than 87. He plays at a consistently high level.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 10:51 am to lsupride87
quote:I would say that it's unfair to say that he's choked every time, so yes, you're being reasonable. Let's look at how every Patriots season has ended since their last title:
Dont stoop to their idiotic level. He hasnt choked either, his teams have just lost
2005: Lost at Denver, 28-13, in the Divisional Playoffs. Patriots offense clearly subpar, though Brady was 20-36, 341, 1TD 2INT, 73.9 rating. I'd call this a Brady choke job.
2006: Lost at Indianapolis, 38-34, in the AFC Championship Game. Brady: 21-34, 232, 1/1, 79.5. Supbar overall QB performance plus a choke in the clutch. Manning orchestrated an amazing comeback on the other end.
2007: Lost Super Bowl XLII to New York, 17-14. Brady: 29-48, 266, 1/0, 82.5. Choke job by entire New England offense, including Brady, who was overwhelmed on the Pats' final drive.
2008: Brady out for season with injury.
2009: Lost at home vs. Baltimore, 33-14, in the Wild Card Playoffs. Brady: 23-42, 154, 2/3, 49.1. Complete choke job by Brady.
2010: Lost at home vs. New York, 28-21, in the Divisional Playoffs. Brady: 25-49, 299, 2/1, 75.1 (Sanchez: 16-25, 194, 3/0, 127.3). Getting outplayed by Mark fricking Sanchez at home in the playoffs is something that I'd call a choke job.
2011: Lost Super Bowl XLVI to New York, 21-17. Brady: 27-41, 276, 2-1, 91.1. I won't call this a Brady choke job, though he could have been better, and though Manning would be fricking crucified for this performance in a loss.
2012: Lost at home vs. Baltimore, 28-13, in the AFC Championship Game. Brady: 29-54, 320, 1-2, 62.3. Absolute choke job by Brady, whose offense was scoreless in the 2nd half.
2013: Lost at Denver, 26-16, in the AFC Championship Game. 24-38, 277, 1-0, 93.9. Not a choke by Brady, but certainly not great, and certainly a stat line that would get Manning killed by First Take viewers who pretend that they're not stupid.
In nine seasons, that's six chokes, two subpar performances, and one season out with injury. Say what you will about Manning, but Brady is a playoff has-been.
This post was edited on 2/4/14 at 10:55 am
Posted on 2/4/14 at 10:54 am to lsupride87
quote:
They are included in these playoff stats that i will post for a fourth time:
Tom Brady playoffs: 247ypg 1.65tds/g .85ints/g 62.11% completion and 87.5 rating
Peyton Manning: 286ypg 1.61 tds/g 1.03ints/g 64.3% completion and 89 rating
PM had way better players to throw the ball to and a better running back. Taking that into account, the fact that TB is so close to him really says a lot about how PM is is not that great.
No one in the NFL had the Colts type talent around them for that length of time. What did he win with it? At least the Cowboys won three with there loaded team.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 10:56 am to offshoretrash
quote:
PM had way better players to throw the ball to and a better running back
New England hasn't had good running backs now?
Posted on 2/4/14 at 10:56 am to offshoretrash
quote:a) I disagree wholeheartedly with your angle here
PM had way better players to throw the ball to and a better running back. Taking that into account, the fact that TB is so close to him really says a lot about how PM is is not that great.
b) Despite a), what you say is not unreasonable
c) Geaux Big Orange
Posted on 2/4/14 at 10:58 am to offshoretrash
quote:
really says a lot about how PM is is not that great.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:01 am to ballscaster
quote:
2007: Lost Super Bowl XLII to New York, 17-14. Brady: 29-48, 266, 1/0, 82.5. Choke job by entire New England offense, including Brady, who was overwhelmed on the Pats' final drive.
New York had one of the all time great D-lines and a very good defense
2009: Lost at home vs. Baltimore, 33-14, in the Wild Card Playoffs. Brady: 23-42, 154, 2/3, 49.1. Complete choke job by Brady.
One of the best defenses of all time
2010: Lost at home vs. New York, 28-21, in the Divisional Playoffs. Brady: 25-49, 299, 2/1, 75.1 (Sanchez: 16-25, 194, 3/0, 127.3). Getting outplayed by Mark fricking Sanchez at home in the playoffs is something that I'd call a choke job.
Jets had one their best defenses ever
2011: Lost Super Bowl XLVI to New York, 21-17. Brady: 27-41, 276, 2-1, 91.1. I won't call this a Brady choke job, though he could have been better, and though Manning would be fricking crucified for this performance in a loss.
Again a great defense
2012: Lost at home vs. Baltimore, 28-13, in the AFC Championship Game. Brady: 29-54, 320, 1-2, 62.3. Absolute choke job by Brady, whose offense was scoreless in the 2nd half.
Again a great defense
That's ridiculous to call those losses choking when he was playing against some of the best defenses ever. PM ran into one this year.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:03 am to offshoretrash
quote:
That's ridiculous to call those losses choking
quote:
PM ran into one this year.
I believe that was the point he was making.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:13 am to LNCHBOX
yeah, they had corey Dillon on loan for a couple of years and he was huge for them.
Dillon - future HOFer
brown
patten
james - future HOFer
harrisson - future HOFer
wayne - future HOFer
name one back TB has had better than edgerin james.
I'm looking at the individual playoff performances and the swings are absolutely wild with manning.
perfect qb rating against Denver, destroys KC, then a 35.5 rating in the title game
the average of "dip" turns out the same, but it is not the same. Manning has 3 games under a 35 qb rating, the lowest tom terrific goes is 49, then he has 2 games in the high 50s, one game in the low 60s, one in the high 60s.
Manning does show more consistency in the past few years, but toms playoff numbers are soooo much more consistent as far as qb rating, though again, watch the average turn out around the same
manning can win the big game, but it is a good bet he won't do it 3 times, which is why he has only 1 Lombardi despite the playing for the team with the most wins in the decade (according to bill polian not sure if that is true)
Dillon - future HOFer
brown
patten
james - future HOFer
harrisson - future HOFer
wayne - future HOFer
name one back TB has had better than edgerin james.
I'm looking at the individual playoff performances and the swings are absolutely wild with manning.
perfect qb rating against Denver, destroys KC, then a 35.5 rating in the title game
the average of "dip" turns out the same, but it is not the same. Manning has 3 games under a 35 qb rating, the lowest tom terrific goes is 49, then he has 2 games in the high 50s, one game in the low 60s, one in the high 60s.
Manning does show more consistency in the past few years, but toms playoff numbers are soooo much more consistent as far as qb rating, though again, watch the average turn out around the same
manning can win the big game, but it is a good bet he won't do it 3 times, which is why he has only 1 Lombardi despite the playing for the team with the most wins in the decade (according to bill polian not sure if that is true)
This post was edited on 2/4/14 at 11:16 am
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:16 am to ballscaster
quote:
2005: Lost at Denver, 28-13, in the Divisional Playoffs. Patriots offense clearly subpar, though Brady was 20-36, 341, 1TD 2INT, 73.9 rating. I'd call this a Brady choke job.
2006: Lost at Indianapolis, 38-34, in the AFC Championship Game. Brady: 21-34, 232, 1/1, 79.5. Supbar overall QB performance plus a choke in the clutch. Manning orchestrated an amazing comeback on the other end.
2007: Lost Super Bowl XLII to New York, 17-14. Brady: 29-48, 266, 1/0, 82.5. Choke job by entire New England offense, including Brady, who was overwhelmed on the Pats' final drive.
2008: Brady out for season with injury.
2009: Lost at home vs. Baltimore, 33-14, in the Wild Card Playoffs. Brady: 23-42, 154, 2/3, 49.1. Complete choke job by Brady.
2010: Lost at home vs. New York, 28-21, in the Divisional Playoffs. Brady: 25-49, 299, 2/1, 75.1 (Sanchez: 16-25, 194, 3/0, 127.3). Getting outplayed by Mark fricking Sanchez at home in the playoffs is something that I'd call a choke job.
2011: Lost Super Bowl XLVI to New York, 21-17. Brady: 27-41, 276, 2-1, 91.1. I won't call this a Brady choke job, though he could have been better, and though Manning would be fricking crucified for this performance in a loss.
2012: Lost at home vs. Baltimore, 28-13, in the AFC Championship Game. Brady: 29-54, 320, 1-2, 62.3. Absolute choke job by Brady, whose offense was scoreless in the 2nd half.
2013: Lost at Denver, 26-16, in the AFC Championship Game. 24-38, 277, 1-0, 93.9. Not a choke by Brady, but certainly not great, and certainly a stat line that would get Manning killed by First Take viewers who pretend that they're not stupid.
Now THIS, is a high quality post.
I really like the highlighted part. Peyton gets crucified anytime his team loses, while the qb's he's compared to have similar performances that they get a pass for. My favorite line from the past two days, is the number of Manning turnovers in the Super Bowl. Peyton's last two turnovers Sunday were no fault of his own.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:16 am to offshoretrash
quote:I guess a choke is in the eye of the beholder. I disagree with you, but there's really no argument we can have here since there's no specific definition of choke.
That's ridiculous to call those losses choking when he was playing against some of the best defenses ever.
quote:You're definitely right on this point. Manning's numbers in Super Bowl XLVIII: 34-49, 280, 1/2, 73.5. Specifically in the last decade, those are Brady-esque playoff quarterback stats. Choke job by Manning? I'd say so. He just didn't perform well, and the league MVP has got to find a way to put more than 8 on the board. He just has to.
PM ran into one this year.
All of this having been said, I don't think there is anything that Manning--or maybe any quarterback in history, for that matter--could have done to beat this Seahawks team. Seattle's offense scored 27 points, and the pick-6 just wasn't the fault of Manning. I'll blame him for the safety. Add a special teams touchdown, and that's 43 points that Manning has to come up with to tie that game. Against that Seattle team, that's just goddamn impossible. Manning had a subpar performance, yes, but there's not a thing he could have done to win that game.
This post was edited on 2/4/14 at 11:22 am
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:20 am to DelU249
Why are you laughing about the Brady and Flacco comparison early in their careers?
Through the age of 27 they both had identical numbers in the regular season and the playoffs.
Through the age of 27 they both had identical numbers in the regular season and the playoffs.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:20 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
I believe that was the point he was making.
I've not once argued this point. His O-line played like shite, special teams played like shite and the defense looked like shite. Even the play calling was shite. But lowly Drew Brees and the Saints faced this team twice at their house and performed better than PM on a neutral field in better weather.
This post was edited on 2/4/14 at 11:24 am
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:23 am to theunknownknight
quote:Even to keep it rhetorical:
Why are you laughing about the Brady and Flacco comparison early in their careers?
Through the age of 27 they both had identical numbers in the regular season and the playoffs.
Brady came out of nowhere in 2001 and won the Super Bowl and missed the playoffs the next year.
Flacco came out of (sort of) nowhere in 2012 and won the Super Bowl and missed the playoffs the next year.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:23 am to ballscaster
Brady is 9-1 in the playoffs when he has 1 or fewer tds
b b b but but but Brady is the catalyst I tell ya!!!!
b b b but but but Brady is the catalyst I tell ya!!!!
This post was edited on 2/4/14 at 11:25 am
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:27 am to DelU249
quote:
james - future HOFer
harrisson - future HOFer
wayne - future HOFer
And Clark - future HOFer
Joseph Addi was no slouch either.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:28 am to ballscaster
quote:
Why are you laughing about the Brady and Flacco comparison early in their careers
because they are in completely different situations, aside from starting with awesome defenses
flacco started his career in a different NFL with better offensive players. Brady trended upwards big time with the addition of legit offensive players and the rule changes, flacco is pretty much at his ceiling.
Posted on 2/4/14 at 11:28 am to DelU249
quote:
james - future HOFer
harrisson - future HOFer
wayne - future HOFer
You say that as if it is an indictment when, in fact, it is PROOF Manning elevates the entire offense no matter who has played with him throughout his career.
D. Thomas and E. Decker - no one heard of them until Manning came along.
By comparison, Brady had decent to good stats until they landed two HoF receivers. Then he exploded.
He loses these receivers and he's back, almost exactly, to the same stats as before. Mid 20's in touchdowns with 10+ interceptions.
People act like this season was an anomaly when it really is closer to the norm in yearly comparisons (statistically speaking)
This post was edited on 2/4/14 at 11:30 am
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