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re: Kyrie Irving: There's no defense played in the NBA, we're playing like teams from the '60s
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:14 am to GumboPot
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:14 am to GumboPot
quote:Current rules favor defense wayyyyyy more than in the 60s or 80s.
The evolution of basketball rules have favored the offense over time.
0
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:15 am to Bench McElroy
Memphis plays D. Hold most teams below scoring average all season.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:17 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
If you look at the defensive ratings this season and compare them to last season, they’re roughly the same.
Yeah, adjusted for pace, the 2017-18 season average is 1 point higher per 100 possessions than 1986-87 and 1994-95. It's still the highest offensive rating of all time, but in perspective, it's not all that ridiculous when you consider the pace and efficiency.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:21 am to slackster
You also have to take into account that teams rarely shot 3’s in the 80’s. So to get the offensive rating as high as it was back then, it had to feel like offenses rarely missed and it was just back and forth scoring.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:25 am to slackster
quote:Then when you factor in how much smarter/more efficient offenses are now, it balances it out even more.
it's not all that ridiculous when you consider the pace and efficiency.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:27 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
It’s because teams are running the floor like crazy this year and getting a ton of transition buckets.
This year, the NBA season wide Pace was 100.3. That was the first time Pace is above 100 league wide since 1988-89. Pace stats only go back to the 1973-74, but the 70s played at an insane pace. The 73-74 season was at 107.8.
They do not play as fast now as they did then. Of course, players are now on a lot less cocaine, so that might have something to do with it.
By the way, shooting percentages were higher in the 80s. Right now, FG% is at 457, and has hovered in the 450's for about a decade (before it was lower... the 00s sucked). In the 80s, leaguewide shooting was about 480 from 78-79 to 87-88 for every season. Now, most of that is because they took shorter shots (and more on the fast break due to Pace). Effective FG% is now up because teams jack up more threes, but actual three-point rates have been steady around .350 for 25 years.
Teams don't shoot better now, they just shoot more threes, so their makes are worth more.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:32 am to Baloo
quote:
the 70s played at an insane pace.
And that's not even taking the ABA into consideration.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:34 am to Baloo
That’s not true. The fact that teams are taking so many 3’s now means they are taking more difficult 3’s than were taken in the past, and players who never would have had the green light to shoot 3’s in the past are shooting them now.
In the past, say, 25 years ago, you didn’t shoot 3’s unless you were a really good 3 point shooter, and you didn’t shoot them unless you were wide open (unless you’re Reggie Miller).
Now, everyone shoots 3’s, even if you aren’t a great shooter. So that would generally bring the average down. And players now are shooting 3’s with hands in their face, coming off screens, step-backs, etc.... taking much more difficult shots.
So the fact that they are playing this way and STILL shooting the 3 as efficiently as when the best shooters were taking wide open set shots 25 years ago is a testament to how much better shooters are now.
In the past, say, 25 years ago, you didn’t shoot 3’s unless you were a really good 3 point shooter, and you didn’t shoot them unless you were wide open (unless you’re Reggie Miller).
Now, everyone shoots 3’s, even if you aren’t a great shooter. So that would generally bring the average down. And players now are shooting 3’s with hands in their face, coming off screens, step-backs, etc.... taking much more difficult shots.
So the fact that they are playing this way and STILL shooting the 3 as efficiently as when the best shooters were taking wide open set shots 25 years ago is a testament to how much better shooters are now.
This post was edited on 11/20/18 at 9:35 am
Posted on 11/20/18 at 9:41 am to PrimeTime Money
Offenses are now designed to give teams three-point shots. And teams don't really shoot the three efficiently (ok, the Warriors do, but they really are loaded with a historic amount of shooting talent). Teams in the 70s/80s didn't shoot the three very well because they didn't grow up with it, so you had a generation that had to learn the shot. By the time the generation that was born into the three made it to the league, the three point rate has been steady ever since.
If there had been a massive influx of shooting talent, we would have seen the three-point percentage go up before this massive increase in attempts, which really has just happened over the past five years. It's kind of remarkable to watch the game transform before our eyes. 2012-13 was the first season in which teams averaged 20.0 3PA/game. Last year, we were at 29.0, and we're at 31.2 right now.
Of the top 10 players in career 3-pt %, only two are currently active (Curry and Korver). Of the top 50 ever, only 16 are active, which doesn't support the theory of a sudden influx of shooting ability. It seems pretty much inline with history since the mid-90s.
If there had been a massive influx of shooting talent, we would have seen the three-point percentage go up before this massive increase in attempts, which really has just happened over the past five years. It's kind of remarkable to watch the game transform before our eyes. 2012-13 was the first season in which teams averaged 20.0 3PA/game. Last year, we were at 29.0, and we're at 31.2 right now.
Of the top 10 players in career 3-pt %, only two are currently active (Curry and Korver). Of the top 50 ever, only 16 are active, which doesn't support the theory of a sudden influx of shooting ability. It seems pretty much inline with history since the mid-90s.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 11:38 am to Nonetheless
quote:I guess the bad boys defense wasn't the 80's
All the old men here should love it because no defense was played in the 80s or 60s either
Posted on 11/20/18 at 12:16 pm to Bench McElroy
People shitted on me when I made a thread saying this last month 
Posted on 11/20/18 at 12:19 pm to sunnydaze
quote:Because it's wrong, backed by facts/data.
People shitted on me when I made a thread saying this last month
Posted on 11/20/18 at 12:20 pm to Bench McElroy
Bluebarracuda and westcoastAG said I was clueless
Posted on 11/20/18 at 12:23 pm to sunnydaze
You are clueless.
The only evidence you had was the fact that you watched a few games.
The only evidence you had was the fact that you watched a few games.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 12:24 pm to Bench McElroy
Players are shooting more threes at a better percentage all while also getting more shots up vs years past.
Statistics has finally arrived in the NBA and this is the result of it. Now some old man is going to post in this thread saying something dumb about “muh rules changes” and not understand there’s so much more freedom in today’s defense vs their 80/90s golden era. In reality it’s pace + more efficient shooters = points
Statistics has finally arrived in the NBA and this is the result of it. Now some old man is going to post in this thread saying something dumb about “muh rules changes” and not understand there’s so much more freedom in today’s defense vs their 80/90s golden era. In reality it’s pace + more efficient shooters = points
Posted on 11/20/18 at 12:30 pm to arcalades
quote:
I guess the bad boys defense wasn't the 80's
What if I told you the average Bad Boys defense would be about 5th in this year's NBA by team DRtg
And that's when they played in an era in which no one shot 3s.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 1:27 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
You also have to take into account that teams rarely shot 3’s in the 80’s. So to get the offensive rating as high as it was back then, it had to feel like offenses rarely missed and it was just back and forth scoring.
Yep. 2017-2018 is the 22nd highest FG% in league history. It's also the fewest FTAs per game in league history. The game is played at a fast pace, but teams hit buckets and took FTs at much higher clips in the past.
Posted on 11/20/18 at 2:00 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:and they were doing this with a lot of midrange shots the analytics people frown on nowadays...
You also have to take into account that teams rarely shot 3’s in the 80’s. So to get the offensive rating as high as it was back then, it had to feel like offenses rarely missed and it was just back and forth scoring.
Posted on 11/21/18 at 9:22 am to slackster
quote:
Yep. 2017-2018 is the 22nd highest FG% in league history. It's also the fewest FTAs per game in league history. The game is played at a fast pace, but teams hit buckets and took FTs at much higher clips in the past.
Free throws are a function of attacking the rim. Teams aren't slashing the lane like they did in years past, taking threes instead. It leads to less free throws (and it's one of the sneaky ways that driving the lane for two isn't that much less valuable as a made three... the "and one" is viable strategy).
I don't think we've seen the strategic endgame. Teams are falling in love with the three, finally realizing its power which is great, but I think we'll see a levelling as other teams go back to penetration-based offense instead of relying on shooting from the outside. A "perfect" NBA would involve a matchup of both styles, both on equal footing. I think we're real close to it, and it is super exciting.
Posted on 11/21/18 at 10:36 am to Bench McElroy
No defense is played in the NFL/NCAAFB or NBA/NCAAB
You can't touch anyone and if you do are flagged.
People want scoring, not a 9-6 game.
It's why a Hockey and Soccer are not that big in the country and are mostly just popular in certain regions.
I really can't compare though because I'll literally watch anything.
You can't touch anyone and if you do are flagged.
People want scoring, not a 9-6 game.
It's why a Hockey and Soccer are not that big in the country and are mostly just popular in certain regions.
I really can't compare though because I'll literally watch anything.
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