re: Jokic is an absolute fraud

Ok, I’ve had my fill of outrage farming, so now I’m going to push back on the OP. The fault lies with Denver’s organization squandering Jokic’s talents.

The one thing that could actually be blamed on Joker is low individual defensive effort, but that was far from their biggest problem here. There were several bigger problems you can’t reasonably blame on Jokic:

- Jamal Murray is just not a reliable enough second option. None of Denver’s players are, but Murray is the one they’re paying to be, so I’m singling him out. Jokic can’t be expected to carry the whole offense every single game. He’s gonna have stretches where shots don’t fall. That’s basketball. If the whole team suddenly can’t score when he’s going through his inevitable misses, then that’s a roster problem, not a Jokic problem.

- They got unlucky with Aaron Gordon being hurt. Yes, Minnesota had worse injury issues, but Gordon is their 2nd best player IMO, and what he brings when healthy is indispensable.

- David Adelman is a joke of a head coach. Idk what happened with Malone for them to fire him and go with Adelman, but that was a disastrous choice.

Say whatever about their path in 2023, but the bottom line is that Jokic won them a title and is a 3-time MVP who could plausibly have won it 5-6 years straight. He’s got limits defensively, but he’s proven they aren’t enough to keep him from winning a title. Denver needed to build with them in mind, and didn’t. That’s a front office problem, not a Jokic problem.

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They got unlucky with Aaron Gordon being hurt. Yes, Minnesota had worse injury issues, but Gordon is their 2nd best player IMO, and what he brings when healthy is indispensable.

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His injury last year is the only reason OKC made it out of that game 7. Gordon is a perfect complimentary player to Jokic.

The reality is they have a moronic coach because they fired the good coach, and did next to nothing to improve the team.

Denver's front office is living on one draft pick in Jokic that made them look like geniuses despite multiple other awful decisions for 10 years.

Murray is the definition of a streaky player. He can win you a game, but is more likely to lose you a game.

Jokic is also worn down after how many years of post-season ball. I hate LeBron but all those long playoff runs for so many seasons wore him down. That is honestly his most impressive accomplishment in my opinion moreso than anything, even if HGH helped him get there.

Thunder fans on here acting like SGA is some kind of all timer is hilarious. He's a very good player with a great supporting cast and the league coddling his pathetic style of foul-baiting, which ruins the spirit of the game. The saddest part is he doesn't need the foul-baiting and if he just played straight up would still be a top 5 to top 10 player easily.

Instead, much like Harden, he ruins the game and makes it unwatchable at times.

When it’s all said and done, Jokic will have an argument for being the guy that won an nba title with the worst “second best piece”

Jokic, Hakeem, Dirk, Kawhi all have good arguments here.

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Nikola Jokic will be a concrete top 10 player of all time

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Anyone who voted for him over SGA for MVP is a joke.

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MVP is a regular season award. What does the playoff record have to do with it? Dummy.

I don’t root for NBA teams. I find it boring. But I like small market franchises that build winners from ashes.

Your little man’s disease is comical.

Don’t you see your little man’s disease? Everyone else does.

OP made a thread about Jokic being a fraud and closed it out with a line about SGAs lack of respect from anyone who voted Jokic for MVP.

Then you took an obviously smart arse remark and turned into a fanboi lecture after you took it seriously

If you had read my first post I disputed the OP and said Jokic is a top 5 player and a bad series doesn’t change that. But you have a narrative to push

What shows your weak mind is you allow others decide who you root for. You have zero convictions and that shows your character.

I’m a Thunder fan and that won’t change. I got to witness my team win a title. There are 30 teams and its hard to do especially in a small market. It took a great GM to outsmart all the big market owners to achieve. Some fans go their lifetime without winning a title look at Vikings in NFL.

When people actually discuss without the trolls its great here. Some actually did that and so did I if you bother to look back. I’ll defend my team just like fans do in all sports. I defend them because I watch and am involved in daily discussions about them and have more knowledge than the trolls. There are some great posters here not a fan of OKC and they are great to discuss basketball with

Mainly, I stick with my convictions and no random poster in a random message board is going to make me not like my team. You on the other hand have let others persuade you to not like the team you liked. Thats absolutely bonkers to me. I can’t comprehend someone doing that but there is always a first.

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Also, they haven’t been the same since they blew that big lead in game 7 against the Wolves in 24. They were up like 15-20 or something and collapsed in the 2nd half. I think the Nuggets and Jokic chance at another ring are gone. That team looks old and meh now.

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If they decide to blow it up and start over then you’d have to look at draft picks.

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The Oklahoma City Thunder have Denver's 2027-2030 picks hostage (Denver owes OKC a 2027 top-5 protected first round pick that is protected from '27-'29. Then Denver owes OKC a 2029 top-5 protected first round pick that is protected from '29-'30).

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How did OKC get some Denver picks?

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They were draft day trades where the Thunder traded late first round picks for later picks. The 2027 pick was obtained in the JaMychal Green trade on 06/23/2022. The Thunder traded the #30 pick (Peyton Watson) and two future 2nds in that trade. The 2029 pick was a draft day trade in 2023 where OKC traded #37, the worst of the 2024 firsts, and a 2024 2nd for Denver's 2029 top-5 protect FRP.

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I think they can still compete if they get the right coach. And supporting players. Even though Jokic is aging if you surround him with the right talent he won’t need to do as much which helps as he ages.

Its hard to get into a top 4 seed and its too early for them to start over. They are still in the window if their front office makes wise decisions