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ZZTIGERS
Stetson Fan
Member since Dec 2007
13294 posts
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IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
I think Schilling & Brown belong in the HOF, and there’s no question about it. I think two things are working against them are... 1) They pitched during an era with some all time greats, and were overshadowed. Pedro, Maddux, Clemens, Randy Johnson & Glavine. 2) They’re not well liked.

SCHILLING:
80.6 bWAR(26th All Time)
79.6 fWAR(20th All Time)
103.7 pWARP(8th All Time)~Baseball Prospectus
127 ERA+(49th All Time)
3116 Ks
3.46 ERA
3.23 FIP

BROWN:
68.4 bWAR(33rd All Time)
76.5 fWAR(24th All Time)
80.2 pWARP(17th All Time)
127 ERA+(49th All Time)
2397 Ks
3.28 ERA
3.33 FIP

I also like using Wins Above Average(WAA) when evaluating careers, because it shows the value of players compared to the average MLB player, not a replacement. WAR rewards stat compilers. Schilling’s career WAA is 54(8th All Time), and Brown’s is 40.3(26th All Time).

Currently, there are 50 pitchers in the HOF with a lower career WAR than Schilling, and 45 pitchers in the HOF with a lower career WAR than Brown.

With respect to guys like Smoltz, Halladay, Jack Morris & Catfish Hunter, if they belong in the HOF, so do Schilling & Brown, at least IMO.


WestCoastAg
UCLA Fan
President, Braden Mann Fan Club
Member since Oct 2012
105921 posts
 Online 

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

Curt Schilling
borderline but in
quote:

Kevin Brown
just misses out on both career and peak WAR. i want to look at his JAWS again but i think it was just short. probably on the outside looking in, imo

the threshold for starters is crazy high


Chalkywhite84
New Orleans Saints Fan
New orleans
Member since Dec 2016
2361 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
Schilling should be in


CelticDog
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2015
26679 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

Schilling should be in



I think he would except for his months long tirade and attempted suits against some new England state he wanted to bail his company out.
He came off entitled and clueless.



ZZTIGERS
Stetson Fan
Member since Dec 2007
13294 posts
 Online 

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

the threshold for starters is crazy high


As it should be, which doesn’t line up with some HOFers. Catfish Hunter & Jack Morris are no where that threshold. Morris’ career ERA+ is only 105, a tad above average.

Brown basically had the same career as Halladay. Their numbers are eerily similar, with Brown having the slight edge. While I'm on topic, I wanna highlight that Brown’s ‘98 season is the most under appreciated season for a pitcher(maybe Gooden’s ‘85 season)...ever. It was one of the GOAT seasons, but gets lost in the discussion because of Pedro’s ‘99 & 2000 seasons, Maddux’s ‘94 & ‘95 seasons etc...


Bench McElroy
Member since Nov 2009
26877 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
Schilling was a better pitcher than Smoltz and should have been in a long time ago. Brown's HOF candidacy is stronger than people think but I would lean towards no with him.
This post was edited on 4/14 at 4:32 pm


Nicky Parrish
Member since Apr 2016
1081 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
Schilling should be in
With his bloody sock for sure


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52
Hot Carl
LSU Fan
You get what you pay for
Member since Dec 2005
46516 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

Schilling was a better pitcher than Smoltz




But Schillinh should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame. Post season matters, unfair as it may be.


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45
Bench McElroy
Member since Nov 2009
26877 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

Brown basically had the same career as Halladay. Their numbers are eerily similar, with Brown having the slight edge. While I'm on topic, I wanna highlight that Brown’s ‘98 season is the most under appreciated season for a pitcher(maybe Gooden’s ‘85 season)...ever. It was one of the GOAT seasons, but gets lost in the discussion because of Pedro’s ‘99 & 2000 seasons, Maddux’s ‘94 & ‘95 seasons etc...


Yeah, I think Halladay benefited tremendously from being in a fairly weak era for starting pitchers. The second best pitcher during Halladay's time was Johan Santana who is nowhere near a HOF caliber pitcher. Meanwhile, Brown pitched during the same time as Clemens, Maddux, Pedro, Big Unit, Glavine, Smoltz, and Schilling among others. It's easy to get lost in a shuffle during a time with so many great starting pitchers.


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20
Korin
Florida Fan
Member since Jan 2014
31663 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
Schilling absolutely should be in. Apparently being a Trump supporter is worse than beating your wife up like Kirby Puckett though.


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Lester Earl
Chicago Cubs Fan
Kamaratard
Member since Nov 2003
238554 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
Schilling in for sure. Great regular season numbers and dominant postseason

Brown, frick no. Borderline as it is, using juice pushes him to hard no.


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32
CelticDog
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2015
26679 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

being a Trump supporter is worse than beating your wife up like Kirby Puckett though.


Nah.

He was being passed over long before Trump.
This post was edited on 4/14 at 7:37 pm


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67
RedRifle
Vanderbilt Fan
Austin/NO
Member since Dec 2013
7127 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

. Apparently being a Trump supporter is worse than beating your wife up like Kirby Puckett though.


It’s baseball. That actually helps.


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40
ThePTExperience1969
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Apr 2016
9031 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?


Considering I don't know who Kevin Brown is, he's not a HOFer. For Schilling, considering he delivered the archetypal tough guy pitching performance to propel the Sox to their first WS win in almost a century AGAINST THE YANKEES and achieved much fame, of course he belongs in the HOF, dude was great.


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26
beatbammer
Atlanta United Fan
Member since Sep 2010
33131 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

He came off entitled and clueless.


So when do we remove all the “entitled and clueless” players that are already in the HoF (of which there are many)?


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40
DallasTiger45
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since May 2012
5243 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
It's not the Hall of Good People I'd Want my Daughter to Date. Induction should be solely based on performance on the field. Schilling is definitely deserving.

Kevin Brown deserves more discussion than he gets, but I'm more on the fence with him.


Tigeralum2008
LSU Fan
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
10571 posts
 Online 

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?



Schilling Yes..... Brown No

The Hall of Fame should not always be about metrics. Schilling went to TWO franchises and won World Series for them.

I'm an avid Yankees fan and hate the mofo. But I still support his election to the Hall.

There is no metric for "Clutch" and Schilling had a knack for being huge when his team needed it.
This post was edited on 4/15 at 8:53 am


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10
ZZTIGERS
Stetson Fan
Member since Dec 2007
13294 posts
 Online 

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
quote:

Kevin Brown deserves more discussion than he gets, but I'm more on the fence with him.


I’m actually very surprised that many in this thread are actually giving thought to Brown’s candidacy, instead of just saying hell no. I’ll admit, most of his argument comes from...“If you’re gonna let Player X in, then Brown deserves in”. He is borderline on Hall of Very Good and HOF. His peak from ‘96-‘01 during the steroid era was great. Yes, I know he was implicated himself, but still impressive nonetheless.


DallasTiger45
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since May 2012
5243 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
Yea, I wouldn't put Kevin Brown in my hall of fame but it would be hard to argue with his inclusion due to some of the other guys who have gotten in.


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TigerintheNO
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
31106 posts

re: IYO, do Curt Schilling & Kevin Brown belong in the Hall Of Fame?
Morris ERA is high, but he threw a 175 complete games. That's a 130 more than Pedro Martinez.

If Morris was only throwing 5-6 innings a start, he ERA would have been lower.


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