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re: Is Kobe Bryant top 5 all time......for the Lakers?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 5:16 pm to texastiger38
Posted on 4/29/13 at 5:16 pm to texastiger38
quote:
Because that is the only part of defense that matters.
Its probably the most important part. And its def more important than playing the passing lane, or AI would have been an all-world defender.
1
Posted on 4/29/13 at 6:14 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:Ehhh.. I think help defense over the past decade has been the most important aspect of defense. On-ball defense is nice, but you're only guarding the ball in general 20% of the time (for positional differences a guard my be bumped up to 30% or so) While you're constantly needing to play help defense. And a busted help rotation is more likely to lead to a wide open shot than blown on-ball defense.
Its probably the most important part.
There is a bit of diminishing returns at play as well since there's a level of on-ball defense where any increase in ability doesn't really help your team much. As long as you're not Mike Bibby circa 2011 or 2012, you're probably playing well enough to where help defense is more important. But worse than that you're on-ball defense is negatively affecting your team in a way that help defense can't make up for your incompetence.
tl;dr I know. I know. Sorry.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 6:17 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
If you could draft each player knowing the career they would have, I would take Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and Magic all over Kobe. And Jerry West vs Kobe really could go either way for me.
You can make an argument for the first 4 you listed but Kobe Bryant would rape any 6"2 white guy that has ever played and it isn't even close.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 7:07 pm to jturn17
quote:
Ehhh.. I think help defense over the past decade has been the most important aspect of defense. On-ball defense is nice, but you're only guarding the ball in general 20% of the time (for positional differences a guard my be bumped up to 30% or so) While you're constantly needing to play help defense. And a busted help rotation is more likely to lead to a wide open shot than blown on-ball defense.
There is a bit of diminishing returns at play as well since there's a level of on-ball defense where any increase in ability doesn't really help your team much. As long as you're not Mike Bibby circa 2011 or 2012, you're probably playing well enough to where help defense is more important. But worse than that you're on-ball defense is negatively affecting your team in a way that help defense can't make up for your incompetence.
You're spinning things here. In the NBA with such elite scorers that are so great one on one (Melo, Wade, KD, etc) having a lockdown perimeter defender (which Kobe was in his prime) is such an absolute game-changer. Rotational defense is more coaching and awareness (see: Thibodeau), but individual on the ball defense can really disrupt things. Avery Bradley is a good example of this.
If you want to argue Wade is more efficient on offense than Kobe, thats legit. But to argue Wade is on Kobes level defensively because he gets steals is silly. Again, where does AI rank as far as defense goes? Nobody played the passing lanes like Iverson.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 7:21 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:No, I'm explaining the important in the modern NBA of help defense. This isn't the 90s anymore.
You're spinning things here.
quote:Right, and teams have great rotational defense have great defenses. MEM, CHI, MIA, BOS. Name me a great defense that is just a collection of one on one defenders? Melo is a very good one on one defender, but he's an absolutely terrible help defender. Thus he's known as a terrible defender. Boozer is somewhat the same.
Rotational defense is more coaching and awareness (see: Thibodeau), but individual on the ball defense can really disrupt things.
quote:Never did this. Nor did I say playing the pass lanes is help defense. That's gambling for a turnover, which if done right can be beneficial, but can be a huge detriment to the defense if done incorrect (I'm looking at your Monta Ellis).
If you want to argue Wade is more efficient on offense than Kobe, thats legit. But to argue Wade is on Kobes level defensively because he gets steals is silly. Again, where does AI rank as far as defense goes? Nobody played the passing lanes like Iverson
Posted on 4/29/13 at 7:28 pm to jturn17
quote:
No, I'm explaining the important in the modern NBA of help defense. This isn't the 90s anymore
Help defense is important, no debating that. But being able to lock up one's man is also crucial, whether its the 90s or 2013.
quote:
Right, and teams have great rotational defense have great defenses. MEM, CHI, MIA, BOS
...and those teams also have quite a few stellar one on one defenders. Off the top of my head, Deng, Noah, Conley, Tony Allen, Gasol, Lebron, Avery Bradley, KG, etc
Point being, the great defenses in the league are good rotationally, and also have players who can lock up their man when need be.
quote:
Name me a great defense that is just a collection of one on one defenders?
Name me a great defense that didn't have a few great one on one defenders?
quote:
Melo is a very good one on one defender
No he's not.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 7:48 pm to lsu480
Jerry West did pretty well playing against black guys
Posted on 4/29/13 at 8:51 pm to lsu480
quote:
Kobe Bryant would rape any 6"2 white guy that has ever played and it isn't even close.
1. Not all white guys are lacking in athleticism (see Manziel, Johnny).
2. Jerry West was ridiculously athletic
3. And the fact that you don't know this is sorta funny.
You can watch this entire clip, or you can just watch up until the 25 second mark where he pulls up and shoots over Bill Russell without any apparent difficulty. Jerry West Highlights
Posted on 4/29/13 at 9:21 pm to bobbyray21
lol at those highlights. Dribble right with right then pull up jump shot over and over, about as monotonous as Jordan's moves in his highlights.
Some of Kobe's highlights
Some of Kobe's highlights
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 9:21 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
nope..
not even close..
Magic
Shaq
kobe
not even close..
Magic
Shaq
kobe
Posted on 4/29/13 at 9:30 pm to Hook Em Horns
Posted on 4/29/13 at 9:32 pm to theunknownknight
Posted on 4/29/13 at 9:34 pm to oleyeller
quote:
i hate.....HATE kobe... but this is a dumb question. he is number 1 or 2 at worst. kobe/magic in any order
He's not ahead of Kareem.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 10:14 pm to Hook Em Horns
quote:
Hook Em Horns
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