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re: Is Kobe Bryant top 5 all time......for the Lakers?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:41 pm to jturn17
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:41 pm to jturn17
quote:
And yes, his '08 MVP year was a clear theft of CP3.
I don't think it was a terrible robbery - after all, the Lakers won 16 more games than the Hornets that year. That's one of those years where it's iffy, but either player could be defended - especially considering the vindication Kobe got with the 4-1 NBA championship series victory. And I'm saying this as a Lakers hater
1
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:42 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
What are you trying to argue, Wade's best couple of seasons were better than Kobe's? If so that is a legit discussion. If you are arguing overall throughout the course of his tenure in the NBA, Wade > Kobe, than you are crazy.
This is definitely what he's arguing, and I think it's the more important point than longevity considerations. Which is why the alien test was created.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:44 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:Kobe's definitely had more than 9 elite seasons. Probably 13 ish, without looking. But I'm saying Wade's 9 elite were played at a higher level, and that's how I judge players.
Debatable. Not saying I disagree with you, but I don't think its so cut and dry either. FWIW I think Kobe put up way more than 9 elite seasons, and thats counting this year
If Lebron retired today, he's #2 all time. If MJ retired after 9 years, he's still #1 all time.
I respect longevity, but I want the highest peak years as long as it's not like 1 or 2 great seasons than back to just being a pretty good ball player.
quote:I'll take that as this orginal debate was centered around the next best scoring SG behind MJ, so I'll call this one a victory
Wade has been a more efficient scorer, particularly in terms of FG%, I will give you that. So maybe Wade is marginally better offensively than Kobe
quote:Fair point. Though I do think Wade is a really good defender, and Kobe was never quite as good as the accolades and media made him out to be(though still great), I won't argue that Wade is better on defense, I can concede that one, though I won't concede that it's not reall close lol.
However, my rebuttal to you is, what about defensively? Thats 50% of the game, and in that aspect Kobe >> Wade and it isn't even really close
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:46 pm to RollTigers
quote:Lakers won 57, Hornets 56 in 07-08.
I don't think it was a terrible robbery - after all, the Lakers won 16 more games than the Hornets that year
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:47 pm to texastiger38
quote:
texastiger38
Kobe isnt a better defender than Wade?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:48 pm to bobbyray21
quote:Plus if you're going alien test, I assume you're grabbing a guy at his peak, so in this isolated instance, the longevity is nullified.
This is definitely what he's arguing, and I think it's the more important point than longevity considerations. Which is why the alien test was created
Now of course you can't pick a single peak game, like Kobe's 81, because that's not sustainable. So IMO, you gotta pick a guy at his sustained peak, and that's the guy you want going up against these pesky aliens.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:50 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Kobe isnt a better defender than Wade?
A better on-ball defender. Wade plays the lanes more, and therefore gets more steals.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:51 pm to shel311
I was looking at the wrong table, I saw 65 to 49.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:51 pm to shel311
quote:
obe was never quite as good as the accolades and media made him out to be(though still great)
Cmon now, Kobe isn't completely some hyped up media creation (just partially
) but I'm not going by first team defenses as much as I'm going by first hand accounts of players who he played against. 
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:51 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Kobe isnt a better defender than Wade?
He is, but to say, "it's not real close" is laughable.
ETA: Kobe is a better on ball defender. But Wade is a far better help defender, and maybe be one of the best shot blockers ever at his height.
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:52 pm to shel311
quote:
Now of course you can't pick a single peak game, like Kobe's 81, because that's not sustainable. So IMO, you gotta pick a guy at his sustained peak, and that's the guy you want going up against these pesky aliens.
Exactly, you look for a guy's peak over a reasonable period of time (enough to where you know it's sustainable). Take a snapshot of that guy, and that's who you use for the alien test.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:53 pm to texastiger38
quote:
He is, but to say, "it's not real close" is laughable.
Right. He is, but it's pretty close.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:54 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:It's both. He's great, elite, one of the best ever, but IMO, not as good as the common thought is. Perfect example, did anyone think of him as an elite or great defender just last season? I'm guessing no, but he got 2nd team all defense based on rep.
Cmon now, Kobe isn't completely some hyped up media creation (just partially
quote:But it circles back to our original argument where NBA players would vote that they want Kobe with the ball for the last shot against the aliens, when all of the data shows that Kobe is not very good in that spot and there are other guys who are better in that spot.
but I'm not going by first team defenses as much as I'm going by first hand accounts of players who he played against.
I have 1 year old twin boys I want to see grow up, We can't let the aliens win!!!
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:56 pm to shel311
quote:
I have 1 year old twin boys I want to see grow up, We can't let the aliens win!!!
Yup, we gotta think about the kids, y'all.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:57 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
A better on-ball defender. Wade plays the lanes more, and therefore gets more steals.
Using your logic, Allen Iverson is a great defender too. Point being is on the ball defense is way more important than playing passing lanes throughout the course of an NBA game.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:59 pm to bobbyray21
quote:This isn't about a Wade love fest, or even my proclaimed love fest for production/efficiency.
Yup, we gotta think about the kids, y'all
This is about my kids and the entire human race!!
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:00 pm to bobbyray21
quote:
Right. He is, but it's pretty close.
Not when it comes to lockdown, one on one D.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:43 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Not when it comes to lockdown, one on one D.
Because that is the only part of defense that matters.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:47 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Is Kobe Bryant top 5 all time......for the Lakers?
Heheh
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