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re: Is Joey Votto a Hall of Famer?
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:32 am to Tornado Alley
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:32 am to Tornado Alley
Who do you have over Cano from 2010-2019?
2
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:33 am to Eric Nies Grind Time
Miggy
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:41 am to Eric Nies Grind Time
quote:
Who do you have over Cano from 2010-2019?
Miguel Cabrera
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:45 am to LSUBoo
Votto had the same wRC+ as miggy over that time
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:49 am to Tornado Alley
Yeah that's who I thought, but I think you would have to shift it a couple of years prior 2010 in order for Miggy to be on top. That is if you believe in stats like WAR.
This post was edited on 1/20/23 at 8:50 am
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:52 am to WestCoastAg
From 2010 - 2019, Cabrera had better statistics across the board, with the exception of OBP, 2B, 3B, and BB.
More hits, dingers (37 more), RBI (nearly 200 more), higher average (.317 to .306), higher slugging (.544 to .516), higher OPS, higher OPS+, more total bases (by 200+).
I'm not arguing whether Votto is a HOFer or even a great hitter. He is clearly a great hitter. I'm saying Cabrera and Trout were the two best hitters of the 2010s.
More hits, dingers (37 more), RBI (nearly 200 more), higher average (.317 to .306), higher slugging (.544 to .516), higher OPS, higher OPS+, more total bases (by 200+).
I'm not arguing whether Votto is a HOFer or even a great hitter. He is clearly a great hitter. I'm saying Cabrera and Trout were the two best hitters of the 2010s.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 8:57 am to Eric Nies Grind Time
Miggy won four batting titles, a triple crown, and two MVP awards in the 2010s. He hit .330 and averaged 39.5 dingers for the first six seasons of the decade. Is that not enough? 
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:01 am to Undertow
he 1000000% should have won the 2017 MVP
hopefully that doesnt keep him out
hopefully that doesnt keep him out
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:08 am to Undertow
No.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:09 am to Tornado Alley
I get it, you are more of an eye test guy. Old school, I like it.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:12 am to Eric Nies Grind Time
Neither Votto nor Cabrera (nor Trout nor Cano) are Jake Mangum, IYAM.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:18 am to Tornado Alley
That guy seemed to live to play well against you. I feel like he hit .600 against the Rebels during his career.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 9:28 am to Eric Nies Grind Time
quote:
That guy seemed to live to play well against you. I feel like he hit .600 against the Rebels during his career.
I actually looked it up and calculated it last season. I don't think you're far off. Should've just put him on every time and got it over with.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 10:19 am to Undertow
Joey Votto...
Solid career. Had some nice years. Thought he under-performed. Not a Big Feared Cog. The guy was always a bit too content to take a BB instead driving in runs.
No Hall of Famer.
(Career) Clutch Stats were "meh":
Late and Close slash line
269/.412/.445
2 outs, RISP
.266/.461/.502
Mediocre numers vs. Power Pitchers (aka Staff Aces who pitch Big Games)
.257/ .394 /.433
Playoff Stats were turrible (smallish sample size, BUT):
PA 47...ABs 41... 3 Runs...10 Hits...ONE Ribby (in almost 50 PAs)
Playoff Slash Line .244 /.319/.244
PLUS...Votto has been a career head case and kid of a jerk. PLUS..(as mentioned) we hoid dings.
Solid career. Had some nice years. Thought he under-performed. Not a Big Feared Cog. The guy was always a bit too content to take a BB instead driving in runs.
No Hall of Famer.
(Career) Clutch Stats were "meh":
Late and Close slash line
269/.412/.445
2 outs, RISP
.266/.461/.502
Mediocre numers vs. Power Pitchers (aka Staff Aces who pitch Big Games)
.257/ .394 /.433
Playoff Stats were turrible (smallish sample size, BUT):
PA 47...ABs 41... 3 Runs...10 Hits...ONE Ribby (in almost 50 PAs)
Playoff Slash Line .244 /.319/.244
PLUS...Votto has been a career head case and kid of a jerk. PLUS..(as mentioned) we hoid dings.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 10:23 am to Liberator
If he keeps mucking it up with the media and doing the live interviews it’ll go a long way to reaching HOF. Not a stat for that but it matters.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 10:23 am to ned nederlander
quote:
You can’t walk your way to the HOF.
His counting stats present a pretty poor case at 2093 hits, 342 hr, 1106 rbi, all in an offensive era.
Agree in both cases.
Walks are nice. Nice numbers. But you need your 3-4-5 power guys to drive in runs. Votto was always too careful in a count -- which can be both good or bad. Probably a much better fit in the 2-Hole for his career.
This post was edited on 1/20/23 at 10:26 am
Posted on 1/20/23 at 10:25 am to gobuxgo5
quote:
If he keeps mucking it up with the media and doing the live interviews it’ll go a long way to reaching HOF. Not a stat for that but it matters.
Yeah, you can tell his 'tude is, "I DON'T CARE" in that regard. Lack of respect to both media and fans. Yup. It matters.
He's always seemed to be a malcontent and strangely unfocused to me.
Posted on 1/20/23 at 10:26 am to Tornado Alley
quote:
Anyone with two eyes and a pulse knows the two best hitters in beisbol for the 2010s, and Votto ain't one of 'em.
During Votto's 10-year peak, 2008-2107 he was second in wRC+ behind only Trout and actually had a slightly higher wOBA which factors in the value of how you get on base, basically the highest run expectancy. So for his 10-year prime, his ability to get on base created the most expected runs, on a rate basis, of anyone in baseball.
He's a modern player with a modern game. In any other era, i think he gets passed over as a "good" player
I'm not saying he's better than Miggy, i think they are pretty comparable and both HOF players
Posted on 1/20/23 at 10:27 am to Liberator
He’s also a sinful, hedonistic pleasure seeker who’s damned to hell. So def not HOF material.
This post was edited on 1/20/23 at 10:28 am
Posted on 1/20/23 at 10:28 am to barry
quote:
I'm not saying he's better than Miggy, i think they are pretty comparable and both HOF players
Miggy was a game-wrecker.
Dunno if that can be said of Votto.
If you've ever noticed, Miggy could and would chase of of the zone -- and beat you with a dinger.
Votto never chased. (Which is a mixed bag.)
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