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1
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:08 am to StrongBackWeakMind
Baseball has always rewarded longevity. Compare Rose's best 6-8yrs to a guy like Albert Belle's besr 6-8 yrs then Belle would clearly come out ahead in all categories other than # of hits.
Difference is that Rose was really good for prob 12 years and good for another 8.
Difference is that Rose was really good for prob 12 years and good for another 8.
This post was edited on 6/25/15 at 10:09 am
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:10 am to STEVED00
quote:
Compare Rose's best 6-8yrs to a guy like Albert Belle's besr 6-8 yrs then Belle would clearly come out ahead in all categories other than # of hits.
Belle was a freaking Beast..............
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:12 am to STEVED00
quote:
Dude the majority of those stats just confirm that he was a very good player who played for a bunch of yrs.
So would you say the same thing about a guy like Nolan Ryan and his strikeouts? No because he was still effective even after 40.
Rose was also still an effective player in his 40s. He hit .273 from 40-45. I mean he had 214 hits as a 43 year old.
I'm not defending Rose as a HOFer bc I don't think he should be in, but the whole stats argument an that he was just an OK player is bull.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:14 am to SystemsGo
You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere. It's hard to tell exactly what schemes a person could be trying to do once a participant starts operating in thathe world. Who knows the extent of what Rose was doing and what was just what he got caught with. Because it is potentially so detrimental to the integrity of the game, it is best to just outlaw it completely.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:15 am to STEVED00
quote:
Compare Rose's 6-8yrs to a guy like
make sure you make the comparison to a guy playing from the same era if you make a comparison.
I agree that Rose was probably most remarkable for his durability but he was also elite in his era. He did win a MVP in 1973 and ROY in 1963 after all.
RE: the OP? I think he ignores that Rose knew he could not bet on baseball or he'd end up where he is now... this is a boundary organized sports need to maintain their legitimacy and they made that rule very clear to every player and coach in teh sport.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:16 am to Noplacelikehome
quote:
So would you say the same thing about a guy like Nolan Ryan and his strikeouts? No because he was still effective even after 40.
We should go after that sacred cow in some other thread. Nolan Ryan is more over-rated than gluten.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:19 am to Noplacelikehome
quote:
I'm not defending Rose as a HOFer bc I don't think he should be in, but the whole stats argument an that he was just an OK player is bull.
Where did I say he was just OK? I said he was a very good player who played at a high level for a long time.
I agree my standard of greatness is apparently high than others.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:20 am to molsusports
quote:
Nolan Ryan is more over-rated than gluten.
7 no hitters speak for themselves..... But yes he is a bit overated...
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:21 am to PeteRose
quote:
I don't want it or any part of the baseball's hypocrisy. HoF wouldn't do anything for me anymore. People know I'm great already. And that's enough.
You know there's something to this.
In keeping him out they've made him more famous than he probably would've been otherwise. They've called more attention to him and his relationship with the MLB by punishing him in this manner.
This post was edited on 6/25/15 at 10:23 am
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:21 am to STEVED00
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/25/15 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:22 am to molsusports
quote:
quote:
So would you say the same thing about a guy like Nolan Ryan and his strikeouts? No because he was still effective even after 40.
We should go after that sacred cow in some other thread. Nolan Ryan is more over-rated than gluten.
Nolan is a strange one mostly bc of his inconsistency. When he was "on" he was unhittable even into his 40s. Problem is that he was "off" as much as he was "on". If memory serves me right his win/loss % is around 50/50.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 10:56 am to STEVED00
quote:
I agree my standard of greatness is apparently high than others.
So who, in your opinion, is/was a great player? It shouldn't be hard to name them, because by your standards there can't be more than 45.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 11:24 am to STEVED00
quote:
Where did I say that? His stats say he should be in the HOF gambling stuff aside. I am just saying he is in the middle tier at best HOF group and not an all time great. All HOFrs are not at the same level. Rose was not in nearly as good as the guys I mentioned.
I 100% agree with this. Based on his play he should be a HOF but him being on the all century team, espeically in the OF was a terrible joke based on emotion.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 11:24 am to Wayne Campbell
Back to the original thread: S.Illustrated ran a long article several years ago about Rose's gambling issues. One main point sticks out: as noted here, he was not using his neighborhood barber/bartender as his bookie. The article named names of the low life POS mob thugs he was booking through. Real mob trash, like most of Rose's out of baseball associates ( of which, according to the article, there were only a few ) were. Rose is a self professed admitted & proven guilty liar. There was no "evidence" of Johnny Football taking money for autographs, either.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 11:26 am to molsusports
quote:should have gone to Ron Hunt.... 100 less AB 25 less hits 4 more home runs, 22 less strike outs, same average, same OBP, higher slugging percentage....
He did win a MVP in 1973 and ROY in 1963
Posted on 6/25/15 at 11:32 am to crash1211
quote:
If you ever did you wouldn't question that he was an all time great.
I did and i agree that he's a very good player, his stats say HOF, but he is not an elite level all time great, if he's ranked in the top 20-40 that is grossly over rated and no i don't have time to compose a list of 20-40 players. .303 lifetime avg is tied for 172 all time. That's obvioulst very good, but not imo all time great.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 11:41 am to H-Town Tiger
I look at greatness in two ways. There are the guys that have great ability like Griffey or Bonds. And then there are the guys that may not have great ability, but are consistently very good for a long time. Like Rose.
To compare it to football, Barry Sanders had more ability than Emmitt Smith, but Smith did it for longer.
To compare it to football, Barry Sanders had more ability than Emmitt Smith, but Smith did it for longer.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 12:12 pm to SystemsGo
This is a very surprising thread coming from you, a seasoned gambler.
You should know the ramifications.
You should know the ramifications.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 12:24 pm to Wayne Campbell
quote:
To compare it to football, Barry Sanders had more ability than Emmitt Smith, but Smith did it for longer.
Smith had plenty of abilty, Sanders was faster and just decided to walk away. A better analogy might a guy like Steve Largent. He wasn't big or fast, but got open and caught the ball. Clearly Randy Moss had way more talent.
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