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re: Here's how you fix overtime

Posted on 1/24/22 at 10:25 am to
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112622 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 10:25 am to
quote:

But as I mentioned, at the start of the game the flip can sometimes make a team get an extra possession
That's really not a good example because at the time of that coin toss at start of game, you have no idea which half will have more possessions, so in the moment there is no advantage.

But in OT, in the moment the coin toss is a huge advantage.
Posted by CrimsonTideMD
Member since Dec 2010
7109 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 10:25 am to
quote:

I don't like penalty kicks deciding it.


Man I’d be on the edge of my seat watching a shoot out between place kickers.

Start with 45 yard kick. Then keep moving back by 2 or 3 yards until one kicker misses.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60711 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 10:26 am to
quote:

But why are we ok making the coin flip matter THAT much?


Why do you think it matters that much? How many OT games end on the first possession? Teams routinely force teams to punt after a kick off all them time but suddenly if they don’t in OT it’s decided by a coin flip?
This post was edited on 1/24/22 at 10:27 am
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112622 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 10:26 am to
quote:

The reality of it is that most these OT games do see both teams get the ball.
quote:

And just as in any other facet of the game, if you don’t make the necessary plays to win…in this case making plays to keep the other team from scoring a TD…then you lose.
This doesn't change the fact of how big of an advantage it is to win a coin toss, and there is a really simple way to make that less advantageous.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112622 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 10:28 am to
quote:

Teams routinely force teams to punt after a kick off all them time but suddenly if they don’t in OT it’s decided by a coin flip?
You're changing my wording.

I did not say it's decided by a coin flip. I said the coin flip affords you a pretty large advantage, I'm not sure how that is up for much debate. Second, there's an easy way to make the coin flip be much less advantageous and it's really simple to employ. In fact, it's employed in the 2 other scenarios where the receiving team has the ball, if they don't score or kick a FG. We're already doing it, so why not do it for the TD also, and thus the coin toss matters much less?
Posted by Crimson1st
Birmingham, AL
Member since Nov 2010
20718 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 10:55 am to
quote:

That's really not a good example because at the time of that coin toss at start of game, you have no idea which half will have more possessions, so in the moment there is no advantage.


But the point is that the outcome can still be skewed by the any given coin flip giving a team an advantage at some point…it’s part of the game. There’s no way to start trying to interject complete equity in the game.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60711 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 10:58 am to
quote:

I did not say it's decided by a coin flip. I said the coin flip affords you a pretty large advantage,


And I’m saying you can negate that advantage by playing some defense. Let’s also not forget they did have 60 minutes to win.

I’m not opposed to plans like yours or just and extra period I just think the hand wringing after a game like that is a little overblown
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112622 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:00 am to
quote:

There’s no way to start trying to interject complete equity in the game.
I know that, but that doesn't mean when you can make a very simple change that would make a coin toss much less advantageous at the time of the toss, it would seem logical you'd want to do that IMO.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112622 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:02 am to
quote:

Let’s also not forget they did have 60 minutes to win.
That's really not relevant to the discussion. What happened in the 4 quarters has no bearing on what I'm saying with regards to the coin toss. It has nothing at all to do with "win in 60 minutes" or "play some defense" as both of those arguments aren't really good replies to exactly what I'm stating.

quote:

I’m not opposed to plans like yours or just and extra period I just think the hand wringing after a game like that is a little overblown

I hear ya. And I'll say even further then fairness or whatever we want to call it, other than Chiefs fans, who would NOT have wanted to give the ball back to Allen and go sudden death from there? Just from an entertainment standpoint, that's a no brainer for me.
This post was edited on 1/24/22 at 11:08 am
Posted by Gloryheauxl
Member since Sep 2011
74 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:21 am to
I think everyone is over complicating this. The easy solution is both teams get a possession then sudden death. I saw an argument that this still gives the team that won the toss an advantage, but does it?

In this scenario, Chiefs win the toss, go down for a TD and kick the PAT. Bills get the ball, also score a TD. Now they get to make a choice: kick a PAT and try to play defense against an offense that’s shredding them, or go for 2 to win the game. 2 pt attempts convert at 48%, so the coin flip winner still gets a slight advantage for having won.

This opens up so many possibilities for drama. Do the chiefs go for 2 after their first touchdown to put pressure on the Bills? Or do they kick the PAT knowing they get a chance to stop them on defense, and even if they don’t they still have a 52% chance to win the game? If the Chiefs score a FG instead, do the bills decide on a 4th and 2 from their own 30 to go for the first, knowing that converting a field goal puts them in a sudden death situation?

I like this scenario because both teams have agency, but the winner of the coin flip still has the advantage. The key is to minimize that advantage while keeping a normal game flow.
Posted by etm512
Mandeville, LA
Member since Aug 2005
20994 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:25 am to
quote:

Here's how you fix overtime



Start with the kickoff. Equal possessions from there. Done
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60711 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:27 am to
quote:

both of those arguments aren't really good replies to exactly what I'm stating.


Maybe not to you but 90% of the whining is that it was decided by a coin toss

quote:

who would NOT have wanted to give the ball back to Allen and go sudden death from there? Just from an entertainment standpoint, that's a no brainer for me.


Sure but that’s 20/20 hindsight.

But even if the Bills get a possession and score a TD to tie it, is it not still an advantage to KC because they won the toss? If they score after the Bills and that’s it, they got a extra possession
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112622 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:32 am to
quote:

But even if the Bills get a possession and score a TD to tie it, is it not still an advantage to KC because they won the toss? If they score after the Bills and that’s it, they got a extra possession
Yea, but again, see the wording of my argument. It's about making the coin toss less advantageous. KC would still have the advantage but it would be much less than the current rules.


And separate from the overall discussion, I'm sure if Buffalo scored a TD they would then go for 2, which further speaks to the added entertainment value. I see no chance Buffalo would put the game in the hands of their defense there and not the offense.

But back to that point, Buffalo can essentially lessen the KC coin toss advantage even more so by going for 2.
Posted by Gaston
Dirty Coast
Member since Aug 2008
41694 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:33 am to
quote:

kickers start at 40 yards out and kick for the win, increasing distances of 5 yards.


So a 50yd field goal?

What happens when they both miss their 65 yarders? Go up a few yards?
Posted by GerryDiNardo
Bringing Back The Magic!
Member since Mar 2004
5772 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:35 am to
Personally, I like one of the following two options:

1.) Just play another 15 minute quarter. Same rules, 2 minute warning. No sudden death.

2.) If the team who wins the coin toss scores a TD on their first possession and want to finish the game off, they have to also get a 2pt conversion. Kicking the XP lets the other team have one possession in a sudden death situation.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
60711 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:36 am to
Fair enough
Posted by CaptSpaulding
Member since Feb 2012
6951 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 11:46 am to
Both coaches face off in one round of Wheel Of Fortune.
Posted by baytiger11
Member since Jul 2020
2247 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

Personally, I like one of the following two options:

1.) Just play another 15 minute quarter. Same rules

This is easily the best solution, but idk about another 15 minutes with tv run times.
Make it about half of a regular quarter like basketball. so like 8 minutes or so..
Posted by TheeRealCarolina
Member since Aug 2018
17925 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 12:12 pm to
College style but start at the 30 and move it back in each successive OT period. That’s the playoff rule.

Regular season, play another 10 minutes and that’s it. If it’s tied it’s tied.
Posted by Basura Blanco
Member since Dec 2011
11322 posts
Posted on 1/24/22 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

Here's the easy fix:

Play the entirety of the OT period like a normal football game.


This is the best solution, and its not even close.

The problem is neither the League (for TV time slotting) nor the Union (Players wanting more money) would agree to this in the regular season. I think it would pass for the playoffs only.
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