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re: Formula 1 2021 Season Thread
Posted on 12/5/21 at 2:56 pm to kengel2
Posted on 12/5/21 at 2:56 pm to kengel2
I want to hear the timing of the radio messages. Horner already admitted Max was playing with the DRS zone so there was an attempt to give the position and take it right back.
This post was edited on 12/5/21 at 2:57 pm
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Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:04 pm to kengel2
quote:
Or maybe they knew and didnt want to take the spot back there.
That's what it looked like to me. Lewis was waiting until after the detection zone to make the pass. Max got impatient and lifted even more or hit the brakes and Lewis hit him.
But Lewis has about 1000 meters to pass Max and just downshifts and follows.
There's no penalty for wanting to be passed before a detection zone and Max is under no obligation to pull over off of the racing line. If he hit the brakes at the last second though he shouldn't have done that.
Feels like two people who did something stupid. Racing incident I guess.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:13 pm to JoeHackett
If Max hit the brakes then that will probably be a strike against him. Imagine the telemetry will tell.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:14 pm to JoeHackett
On the audio you can hear Lewis go from 8th to 4th or maybe even 3rd gear.
It could also look like Max is braking without him hitting the brakes. Engine braking would cause the car to slow pretty quickly. Max would have been also downshifting. Max could be trying to force the pass or wondering wtf is happening and downshifts one more time with Lewis about 5 meters behind him.
I don't know, now I think it's probably primarily on Lewis.
LINK
It could also look like Max is braking without him hitting the brakes. Engine braking would cause the car to slow pretty quickly. Max would have been also downshifting. Max could be trying to force the pass or wondering wtf is happening and downshifts one more time with Lewis about 5 meters behind him.
I don't know, now I think it's probably primarily on Lewis.
LINK
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:15 pm to JoeHackett
Max went down to 3rd. Not sure how low Hamilton went.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:16 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
If Max hit the brakes then that will probably be a strike against him. Imagine the telemetry will tell.
Those cars at speed have enough aero drag they slow harder from just letting off the gas than your daily driver does in full antilock.
This post was edited on 12/5/21 at 3:17 pm
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:17 pm to BuckyCheese
Yeah, guess I should have said intentionally slowing on the racing line.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:20 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
If Max hit the brakes then that will probably be a strike against him. Imagine the telemetry will tell.
Yeah but why is Lewis there? It wasn't a safety car.
Two options
1. Lewis has no idea what's going on and decides to follow a slow moving car. A first in racing history.
2. Lewis knows exactly what's happening and wants to wait until after the detection zone.
Obviously it's #2. But I don't know what the rules are. No one has ever declined to pass someone before in a race like that.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:26 pm to JoeHackett
quote:
Yeah but why is Lewis there? It wasn't a safety car.
Two options
1. Lewis has no idea what's going on and decides to follow a slow moving car. A first in racing history.
2. Lewis knows exactly what's happening and wants to wait until after the detection zone.
Obviously it's #2. But I don't know what the rules are. No one has ever declined to pass someone before in a race like that
But, his frick up is on Max.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:27 pm to JoeHackett
quote:
2. Lewis knows exactly what's happening and wants to wait until after the detection zone.
Probably. If Lewis didn't know Max was giving back the position then he was following the leader. Then the leader down shifted and slowed on the racing line to let him pass.
Intentionally driving slow on the racing line, when you know someone is following, probably won't be looked at well.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:33 pm to fightin tigers
It seems like if youre going to tell a driver to give a position back, you should tell the behind driver and then the ahead driver.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:35 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
If Lewis didn't know Max was giving back the position then he was following the leader.
That makes no sense though. If he didn't know he was giving the position back wouldn't he just pass a slower moving car? I understand that is't on the racing line but Lewis isn't stupid, he knows he can go off line and make a pass. He doesn't have to downshift 5 times and follow the leader.
quote:
Intentionally driving slow on the racing line, when you know someone is following, probably won't be looked at well.
Even back markers do that sometimes. If the driver behind has plenty of advance warning of what's happening it shouldn't be a problem. Lewis has at least half a straight to see what's going on. Otherwise he would have slammed into him way before he did.
I will say if Max hit the brakes at the last second in anger (a real possibility) then obviously he's in the wrong. But I think Lewis makes the situation dangerous as well for slowing and following for 1000 meters.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:37 pm to JoeHackett
Hamilton was summoned too.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:38 pm to Lsut81
Yep. This is going to turn into a huge cluster
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:40 pm to JoeHackett
Whether the position was being given or not when you're closing fast why the hell would you put your car right behind the car you're pulling up on? I think there is some culpability on both for that incident. There was also terrible direction given. In essence Verstappen had to give the place back 2-3 times.
I'm no fan of either. I just think the whole situation was handled horribly.
I'm no fan of either. I just think the whole situation was handled horribly.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:49 pm to VABuckeye
Max leaving the track salty as hell. Complaining about consistency within stewarding.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 4:00 pm to fightin tigers
I just don't get why Hamilton followed Max and slowed down with him. It was like a brain fart moment.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 4:10 pm to BottomlandBrew
I think it certainly had to do with trying to get a slip stream, then maybe not realizing how slow he was going, then the DRS zone on top of that.
Max moved a little under the downshift/braking, which could have made Lewis doubt what was happening.
If Lewis didn't expect Max to be that slow there isn't a whole lot to see.
Max moved a little under the downshift/braking, which could have made Lewis doubt what was happening.
If Lewis didn't expect Max to be that slow there isn't a whole lot to see.
This post was edited on 12/5/21 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 12/5/21 at 4:11 pm to fightin tigers
quote:He wasn't on the racing line and Hamilton had ample time to pass him.
Intentionally driving slow on the racing line, when you know someone is following, probably won't be looked at well.
The first incident was on Max, and he gave the position back. Everything after that was pure Hamilton. I don't even think he needed to give up the position in the later scenario.
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