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Posted on 8/21/13 at 10:49 pm to craigbiggio
I'm so confused.
Posted on 8/21/13 at 10:52 pm to craigbiggio
quote:
quote:
However, imagine if Paul had the stability of playing with a top 3 all-time PF and under one of the greatest coaches of all time.
He had this in NOLA and he still couldn't get it done
I must have missed the top 3 all-time PF playing with Chris Paul.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 12:07 am to Tiger1242
quote:
Who's better right now? Tony Parker?
The answer is in the question.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 6:20 am to DURANTULA
quote:quote:
Paul has a higher PER,
quote:quote:
a higher USG %
quote:
How is this an argument in Paul's favor?
I suggest that you actually look up what those two things mean.
quote:
Paul plays in easily the best/easiest era for PGs to play in. Paul, like LeBron is a stathound. He'll make a play or two a game sharing the ball that creates the illusion that he makes a team so much better, when in reality, he doesn't. He's great if you want your pg to fill a stat sheet. He's average if your goal is to win championships. If you aren't trying to win championships, then what's the point in playing?
Not your best work, but not bad. 5/10Posted on 8/22/13 at 9:13 am to corndeaux
quote:
So we can only look at total assists and total steals to measure a player's worth?
When a guy goes out and sets a ridiculous mark like Stockton has, yes.
Stockton has set the bar really really high in the one category that matters most to PG's, assist.
Those % stats mean nothing when it comes to hall of fame numbers, no one cares.
Do you try to look for ways to show that Griffey was a better home run hitter than Ruth and Aaron?
You could argue he's better, but he didn't reach 700. he fell just short at 630. so he's not really mentioned in that same breath as Aaron and Ruth.
I'm sure most people would take Griffey over Aaron, but when you talk about all time, Aaron will always be ahead of him b/c of that stat, the one that matters most.
I'm sure most people would take Isiah over Stockton, but when you look at a career well after they retire, the only thing most people look at are the big stat numbers, and Stocktons is way ahead of everyone else right now, and Kidd is close second.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 9:54 am to TeddyPadillac
So who are you putting him in front of Magic or The Big O?
Posted on 8/22/13 at 11:37 am to Algerian
No one yet, he has a lot of work left to do in his career. Where does he project imo, behind stockton and kidd at 3rd, with potential to pass them both if he stays healthy.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 11:50 am to TeddyPadillac
If we are going with the Top 5 of all time at the point position and we are including The Big O as a PG (some consider him the first Point Forward), then this is the undisputed list:
Stockton
Magic
Big O
Payton
Isiah
No current player matches up with those guys. None of them. Like I said, Paul has played in the easiest era for PGs to succeed in in NBA history. Hell if Rajon Rondo would learn how to shoot worth a shite on a consistent basis, then we wouldn't even be talking about Chris Paul. Rondo is better at every single facet of the game (passing, ballhandling, rebounding, defense, and so on), except for shooting. Then again, I prefer my point to run the offense rather than be the focal point of it.
Stockton
Magic
Big O
Payton
Isiah
No current player matches up with those guys. None of them. Like I said, Paul has played in the easiest era for PGs to succeed in in NBA history. Hell if Rajon Rondo would learn how to shoot worth a shite on a consistent basis, then we wouldn't even be talking about Chris Paul. Rondo is better at every single facet of the game (passing, ballhandling, rebounding, defense, and so on), except for shooting. Then again, I prefer my point to run the offense rather than be the focal point of it.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 12:08 pm to DURANTULA
Jason Kidd > The Glove
Posted on 8/22/13 at 12:24 pm to LSU Piston
quote:
Jason Kidd > The Glove
Funny guy
Posted on 8/22/13 at 12:30 pm to DURANTULA
quote:
Funny guy
I'm serious, bruv.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 12:31 pm to TeddyPadillac
Kidd is like 3-4000 assists behind Stockton. That's not 'real close'.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 12:32 pm to Ghazi
quote:
GHAZI
He's BAAACK
Posted on 8/22/13 at 12:35 pm to LSU Piston
Then you are seriously wrong.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 12:35 pm to LosLobos111
Just looked it up. Kidd is about 3700 assists behind Stockton. That would be four of Kidd's BEST seasons. He never averaged 10 apg in a season.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 3:05 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
Just looked it up. Kidd is about 3700 assists behind Stockton. That would be four of Kidd's BEST seasons. He never averaged 10 apg in a season.
Well first off your wrong. He averaged over 10apg 4 times, and had over 9.5 4 times. He finished out side the top 10 in apg only twice in his 19 years, his last 2 years, and he finished in the top 5 in apg 15 of the 17 other years.
Kidd did everything. The only thing he wasn't great at was scoring.
some more kidd facts:
He was on 9 all nba defensive teams. 4 first teams
He as on 6 all nba teams, 5 first teams
His 8,725 rebounds also rank first among all players standing under 6'5", which is also more than Magic and Big O
He's 3rd in triple doubles behind Magic and the Big O and way ahead of everyone behind him, until Lebron is done, yet he is no where near their size.
Only one player has ever retired while averaging at least 12 points, six rebounds, eight assists and 1.5 steals per game. Jason Kidd.
Just one player has knocked down at least 100 threes in a single season more than once after his 35th birthday. Jason Kidd.
Kidd retires as the only player in NBA history to total at least 17,500 points, 8,500 rebounds, 12,000 assists and 2,500 steals for his career.
and his obvious ones, 2nd in assists, 2nd in steals, and 3rd in 3 pointers.
It's easy to look at his numbers and say he might be the best PG ever.
Your prototypical PG isn't a scorer and Kidd wasn't, but there wasn't another facet of the game he wasn't great at. Hard to say that for any other PG over the course of their career.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 4:21 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Do you try to look for ways to show that Griffey was a better home run hitter than Ruth and Aaron?
You could argue he's better, but he didn't reach 700. he fell just short at 630. so he's not really mentioned in that same breath as Aaron and Ruth.
You're really onto something here. Let me try:
Carlton Fisk is a better home run hitter than Joe DiMaggio because he ended up with 15 more HRs. You can talk up fancy stats all you want, but the proof is in the pudding. Fisk has more HRs and therefore will always be above DiMaggio as a HR hitter.
Rafael Palmeiro is a better hitter than Ted Williams because he got more total hits. You can find ways to say Williams was better, but Palmeiro got more hits and that is why they call it "hitter."
John Havlicek is a better scorer than Durant too. He's got twice as many points. The facts are undeniable- Havlicek was the league's all time leading scorer at one point!!
I'm excited that Dwight Howard only needs another 1K rebounds before I can be sure he is a better rebounder than Julius Erving and Jack Sikma. But I really can't wait until he gets 2K more before we can definitively say that he is a better rebounder than Kevin Willis.
This post was edited on 8/22/13 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 8/22/13 at 5:40 pm to TeddyPadillac
Nice job cherry-picking those numbers. And in two of Kids 10apg seasons, he played 50 and 67 games. My mistake on the others.
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