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re: Barry Bonds is the GOAT Baseball Player

Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:20 pm to
Posted by Lester Earl
Member since Nov 2003
277998 posts
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:20 pm to
PJ the Yankees had 6-7 different guys win mvp in the 50’s alone and mantle was the best of them.

They could have won championships with actual Yogi Bear at catcher
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
202417 posts
Posted on 2/20/24 at 8:30 pm to
bullshite.and you know it.
Posted by VerlanderBEAST
Member since Dec 2011
18981 posts
Posted on 2/20/24 at 9:44 pm to
For whatever reason people don't respect catchers inspire of the fact its clearly the most valuable position.
Posted by InkStainedWretch
Member since Dec 2018
1701 posts
Posted on 2/20/24 at 9:49 pm to
Oh horsecaca … look I think Mantle was the superior player overall but Yogi was historically elite too.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
84567 posts
Posted on 2/20/24 at 10:24 pm to
quote:

I must've also missed that year where Barry Bonds was the best hitter in the league AND also the best pitcher.


Okay, you’ve convinced us. Bonds is the 2nd best player of all time then.

This is like the Jordan vs LeBron debate - when you start trying to argue LeBron/Bonds “aren’t close” or that there are multiple players better, you’re losing it.
Posted by MorgusTheMagnificent
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2014
1850 posts
Posted on 2/20/24 at 10:27 pm to
quote:

It’s the ultimate team game


This is a bad take. A pitcher can literally win a game by hisself
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64374 posts
Posted on 2/20/24 at 10:49 pm to
quote:

A pitcher can literally win a game by hisself


Unless he's also scoring runs, no he can't. And pitchers pitch every 5 games, so they can't win a championship by themselves. This is why wins and losses for pitchers are no longer used to determine value
This post was edited on 2/20/24 at 10:51 pm
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35370 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 12:03 am to
quote:

quote:
A pitcher can literally win a game by hisself

Unless he's also scoring runs, no he can't


Orel Hershsiser pitched 18 innings in the 45 inning World Series with a 1.00 ERA...and an RBI that helped win one of the games by one score.

He pitched twice in 5 games and would've pitched Game 7...but he had already won the series.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
64374 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 1:48 am to
quote:

He pitched twice in 5 games

So someone else won the other two games. Thanks for proving my point
quote:

and an RBI that helped win one of the games by one score.

Who scored the other runs? Someone other than him? Yep
Posted by Lester Earl
Member since Nov 2003
277998 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 7:14 am to
quote:

bullshite.and you know it.



Other Yankees that won MVP on teams that Berra was on

1947: Dimgaggio
1950: Phil Rizzuto
1956: Mantle
1957: Mantle
1960: Maris
1961: Maris
1962: Mantle
1963: Elston Howard


In modern day ball, Ted Williams probably wins the MVP in 51' & 54', and Mantle in 55'.

Yogi would never win an MVP in today's game. The voters are too smart.
Posted by Nado Jenkins83
Land of the Free
Member since Nov 2012
59545 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 7:29 am to
I dont care if the steroids made a difference

When he was in his prime hitting there the ball looked a beachball to him. It didn't matter IMO.
Posted by CXSteve
Member since Oct 2012
848 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 7:44 am to
I went for a bike ride in Cincinnati with Barry when he was the Marlins hitting coach. Met him through Strava cycling site and he asked if I could show him a good 2 hour route. He was really cool that day and way into cycling back then.
Posted by InkStainedWretch
Member since Dec 2018
1701 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 8:25 am to
I’m going to surprise you. I don’t think Yogi was the best player in the league in any of the seasons he won MVP.

But the award doesn’t say “best” player. It says “most valuable” player. Which brings subjectivity into it that’s still there today.

You seem to have a bug up your arse regarding Yogi for some reason.

I will concede to you that Bench is the GOAT catcher. I’d put maybe four or five other catchers ahead of Yogi on the all-time list.

But I really don’t care where he ranks or what the numbers show. If I could pick any catcher from history to start an imaginary team with, I would pick Yogi. And I think I would do all right.
Posted by Lester Earl
Member since Nov 2003
277998 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 9:31 am to
I have favorite players too but I cannot logically argue they are better than they are when the facts say otherwise.

Subjectivity is a poor excuse for ignorance
Posted by InkStainedWretch
Member since Dec 2018
1701 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 11:40 am to
I believe in analytics, strongly, but the day it becomes all about the numbers is the day I say “peace out” as far as being a fan.
Posted by HangmanPage1
Wild West
Member since Aug 2021
1359 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

He didn't break any rules. They did not have a drug testing policy at the time.
Bingo!!!!
Posted by i am dan
NC
Member since Aug 2011
24577 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

You think Bob Gibson or Jack Morris would have intentionally walk Barry bonds????


No. The dude said intentional walks didn't happen back in the day because pitchers had badass attitudes compared to now and wouldn't want to walk hitters. I said I agree.

How are you confused?
Posted by El Tigre Grande
Bayou Self
Member since Jan 2006
2269 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

Ted Williams says hello

handful of guys say hello
rod carew anyone...
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
13773 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 2:44 pm to
quote:

Oh horsecaca … look I think Mantle was the superior player overall but Yogi was historically elite too.



It's impossible to give Mickey Mantle the best of the best, even as a hardened Yankee fan all my life. He was an average defensive player and I'm being kind. He started in the infield and they tried to hide him in the outfield. Not giving "GOAT" to just an offensive player.

Willie Mays was all that and more. And so was Barry Bonds.
Posted by AtlantaLSUfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2009
22989 posts
Posted on 2/21/24 at 2:52 pm to
Best hitter
Ted Williams

Best home run hitter
Babe Ruth

Why can’t he just be “one of the best ever”? He will never be called the best baseball player ever.
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