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re: 2022 NASCAR Season Thread - 2022-23 Offseason
Posted on 10/12/22 at 12:47 pm to Lonnie Utah
Posted on 10/12/22 at 12:47 pm to Lonnie Utah
He knew what he was doing 
0
Posted on 10/12/22 at 12:49 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Read that and tell me why Chase Elliot should have gotten a penalty last year a Bristol. 1) He did not race at 100%. He slowed down in front of Harvick. 2). He "Artificially Altered" the outcome of the race. He hit/blocked Harvick until his teammate was able to pass the #4 car. He ever copped to it on the radio as documented previously in this thread. 3). The definition says "Any Competitors(s)". Not crew chief, not team, not driver. "Any Competitors(s)" By definition, Chase is a competitor in the event, therefore the rule applies to him. Presented with the facts and the rule, do you still want to stand by your previous statement?
I said there are some gray areas and this is one of them. What you fail to see is the team orders vs driver doing something on their own.
Hamlin took actions on Chastain on his own out of frustration and that altered the finish results. Chase took actions in his own and that altered the finish. Harvick took actions on his own last year and it altered the finish.
I could do this all day. Nascar is lookikg for organized alterations not heat of moment actions. Thet love the anger for ratings and will never policy their way out of that. If you read this from nascsr POV its organized changing (like what Custer and his team did) they take actions on.
If you can’t see the difference then there is no reason to beat a dead horse.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 12:55 pm to OU Guy
quote:
What you fail to see is the team orders vs driver doing something on their own.
No, I see it 100%. What I'm saying is it makes no difference.
The rule is black and white. It doesn't say if the driver is told by the team to alter the race it's a penalty. It says "Any competitor".
Chase is "Any competitor".
Posted on 10/12/22 at 12:58 pm to InkStainedWretch
Thanks for the link. One other fix they need and only for superspeedways is to make the frint bumpers better match back bumpers for all cars. Only do so for those few races. That would help get rid of some large crashes if a car is pushed into another car ahead of pushed car. If bumpers match then less chances of wrecks. Risk will still be there, bit maybe a bit less. I also wonder how the new changes using less rigid supports will handle draft bumping.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 1:14 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
The rule is black and white. It doesn't say if the driver is told by the team to alter the race it's a penalty. It says "Any competitor".
Dead horse beating. Kyle took out Chase a year ago. Is that part of your thoughts and is fined? Harvick crashed Chase a year ago should he be fined?
Every race has drivers making decisions. Some are bad, some are timijg and others out of being mad.
You are saying nascar should look at every incident and make a decision to fine them because it altered the finish.
Look at NFL QBs for your answer. You want that in Nascar? Thats what you are saying.
What about all the dumb crashes Chastain caused this year and altered the finish. Maybe his intent was to change finish in many races to knock x driver out.
Nascar puts some common sense into it. Just like refs in football if it doesn’t go your way you complain. But overall its consistent and like I said, they fine team orders not driver frustration.
Nascar looooves mad drivers and all the buzz it creates. They will never do what you are suggesting. Heated driver battles are what made this sport.
Remember the Daytona fight that due to snowstorm half the country was snowed in and watched it. That alone got people interested in nascar. All through the years the driver battles were the star. Pass in the Grass was talked about for years, and it was heated driver battle where neither cared about rules. It was an awesome move by Dale and Bill started it by leaning on him first. These type anger actions grew the sport.
Dale jr spinning out on purpose? That will get you a fine.
I can’t explain this much better but nascar will not do what you suggest. It would destroy whats left of the sport.
This post was edited on 10/12/22 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 10/12/22 at 1:23 pm to OU Guy
quote:
I can’t explain this much better but nascar will not do what you suggest. It would destroy whats left of the sport.
If enforcing its own rules evenly will destroy the sport then just shut it down
Posted on 10/12/22 at 1:43 pm to TrussvilleTide
“Boys, have at it,”
Posted on 10/12/22 at 1:46 pm to OU Guy
quote:
I can’t explain this much better but nascar will not do what you suggest. It would destroy whats left of the sport.
The rule does not apply to wrecking someone else. Read part C.
quote:
"Artificially Alter" shall be defined as actions by any competitors(s) that show or suggest the competitors(s) did not race at 100% of their ability for the purpose of changing finishing positions in the event in NASCAR's sole discretion.
So it's not taking about crashing or wrecking someone else because you're mad. It's talking about slowing down or impeding other drivers or letting others pass you (or other racers) with in intent of changing the final outcome of the race. It's pretty simple.
The problem nascar has created ISN'T the penalty with Cole Custer in and of itself. The problem most folks are having is they did NOT implement a penalty last year. Most fans see the hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy is magnified by what appears to be favorable treatment to one car owner. That's what has everyone up in arms.
This post was edited on 10/12/22 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 10/12/22 at 1:54 pm to OU Guy
This is rivaling his week-long melt back in June after Chase won Dover.
Chase lives rent free in his head.
Chase lives rent free in his head.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 1:56 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Chase lives rent free in his head.
It's not about Chase. It's about Nascar. The Chase/Harvick incident is just the most obvious example of how the rule is not applied fairly.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 1:57 pm to OU Guy
quote:
And Chase would whip Harvick all over the floor.
Yeah I'm a Chase guy but Harvick would wipe the floor w/Chase and most drivers not named Kyle Busch.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:02 pm to Lonnie Utah
It is perfectly fine for drivers to show their displeasure. I.E. Denny swerving at Chastain. For a moment. The minute that starts affecting the race is when it becomes a problem.
Chase deserved a penalty for Bristol.
Denny deserved a penalty for Gateway (after he didn't stop).
Byron definitely deserved a penalty for Texas.
I'm a big Harvick fan. He should've been kicked out of playoffs in 2015 for his Talladega stunt. Right hooking a guy or left hooking a guy for the win should result in a penalty. Logano and Kenseth at Kansas in 2015 to me is ok. 5 to go and two guys going for the same real estate with no interest in lifting. That's racing.
I'd argue Joey shoving Byron in the wall at Darlington was worthy of a penalty. If Custer is worthy of being penalized, then NASCAR just opened a big can of worms.
Chase deserved a penalty for Bristol.
Denny deserved a penalty for Gateway (after he didn't stop).
Byron definitely deserved a penalty for Texas.
I'm a big Harvick fan. He should've been kicked out of playoffs in 2015 for his Talladega stunt. Right hooking a guy or left hooking a guy for the win should result in a penalty. Logano and Kenseth at Kansas in 2015 to me is ok. 5 to go and two guys going for the same real estate with no interest in lifting. That's racing.
I'd argue Joey shoving Byron in the wall at Darlington was worthy of a penalty. If Custer is worthy of being penalized, then NASCAR just opened a big can of worms.
This post was edited on 10/12/22 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 10/12/22 at 2:03 pm to Lonnie Utah
When you put it that way that's perfectly fair.
But like Ink said a couple of pages back, NASCAR has arbitrarily enforced its rules for 71 years so they aren't gonna change now.
But like Ink said a couple of pages back, NASCAR has arbitrarily enforced its rules for 71 years so they aren't gonna change now.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 3:12 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
This is rivaling his week-long melt back in June after Chase won Dover. Chase lives rent free in his head.
Yes, I can see the few nascar fans left don’t like Chase. Yet he has most wins and points in a year with most equal car in history. Its really hard for them.
On one hand they claim Chase gets all these xtras. Then when nascar throws flag that costs Chase the race they change to other races looking for something to show he does. Then when presented with all these drivers who took Chase out without fine they go to downnvoting lol.
Nascar will never police driver anger to a point. I mean look at Denny stalking Chastain for half a race yet no fine. But Byron spins Denny and presto a penalty. It wasn’t nascar who took penalty away it was racing committee who do not work for nascar who decided to give points back.
Larson took out Chase too, in a road race. Nascar is never foing to police that.
Heck, look at Indy road race. On restarts every driver 4th on back was intentionally overdriving the corner and using cars already there as brakes. They forget about that and it was another race Chase got taken out by these bonzai moves.
If nascar was giving Chase advantage he’d have more wins.
This post was edited on 10/12/22 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 10/12/22 at 4:14 pm to OU Guy
Bowman is out the next 3 races.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 4:32 pm to tWildcat
He might as well get ready for February and get healthy. Concussions are nothing to frick around with.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 4:47 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
Yeah I mean they have 4 races left, might as well sit the last one out too.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 5:26 pm to tWildcat
The fact that Kurt is still out is crazy.
And Bowman missing the rest of the season based off that small wall hit is unacceptable
Listening to DBC, they said that the way the rear end is constructed and designed on the new car, there is no way it will ever be as safe as the old car
And Bowman missing the rest of the season based off that small wall hit is unacceptable
Listening to DBC, they said that the way the rear end is constructed and designed on the new car, there is no way it will ever be as safe as the old car
This post was edited on 10/12/22 at 7:04 pm
Posted on 10/12/22 at 5:51 pm to SPEEDY
NASCAR has amended the rules on appeals to allow more people on both sides to present the case. It allows for multiple NASCAR officials to present NASCAR’s side.
Posted on 10/12/22 at 7:22 pm to Lonnie Utah
I know it’s not realistic but it would be awesome if there were no teams.
Only thing worse than team driving is when the manufacturers act like teams.
That’s mostly at the superspeedways but you watch that and it’s absolutely apparent that the individual drivers are not in control of the racing.
From what I can tell Larson and Logano are slight exceptions. Willing to wreck teammates for their own good.
Only thing worse than team driving is when the manufacturers act like teams.
That’s mostly at the superspeedways but you watch that and it’s absolutely apparent that the individual drivers are not in control of the racing.
From what I can tell Larson and Logano are slight exceptions. Willing to wreck teammates for their own good.
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