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re: Would you be in favor of eliminating the federal income tax & replacing it with sales tax?
Posted on 9/24/24 at 9:29 am to cbree88
Posted on 9/24/24 at 9:29 am to cbree88
quote:
Would you be in favor of eliminating the federal income tax & replacing it with sales tax?
Yes. Shame it’s never going to happen.
0
Posted on 9/24/24 at 9:34 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Housing market would collapse overnight.
Not really as it already exists for the income derived for selling a home (which is why we have stepped-up basis that some politicians want to get ride of because "millionaires and billionaires" blah-blah-blah). You bring up a good point though in that private sales would need to be carved out.
Posted on 9/24/24 at 9:58 am to cbree88
How would we fund failing programs for every perceived problem and endless wars?
I mean before the income tax we did not fight on other continents and hemispheres.
Pay your taxes and eat your bugs.
Do you really want a transgender prisoner to have to pay for the sex reassignment surgery?
Do you want to see obese children starve to death?
Do you not want 20,000 Haitians in every rural small town?
Give up your guns, your God, and be more open minded.
I mean before the income tax we did not fight on other continents and hemispheres.
Pay your taxes and eat your bugs.
Do you really want a transgender prisoner to have to pay for the sex reassignment surgery?
Do you want to see obese children starve to death?
Do you not want 20,000 Haitians in every rural small town?
Give up your guns, your God, and be more open minded.
Posted on 9/24/24 at 10:11 am to Bard
quote:
Not really as it already exists for the income derived for selling a home
Not for what I’m going to assume is the vast majority of residential transactions.
Your house has to appreciate a very large amount to owe any taxes on the gain.
A 10-20% (or more) tax on the entire sales price of every home would annihilate property values immediately.
Posted on 9/24/24 at 11:02 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Economy gets nuked the day this is implemented. And if you start making exceptions you will quickly make the tax code more complex than it is already.
Nah.
Politicians will play football with it but it’d still be more fair than an income theft through taxation.
Think of the amount of savings!
People could accumulate wealth like never before
Posted on 9/24/24 at 11:07 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
The fairest and most distributed tax is a property tax. Everyone pays those. Owners, renters, consumers, locals, foreigners. Everyone.
And it’s a form of consumption taxation
Posted on 9/24/24 at 11:22 am to SlidellCajun
quote:
Politicians will play football with it but it’d still be more fair than an income theft through taxation.
First, that’s a matter of opinion and 2nd what possible shred of evidence do you have to believe the federal government will be “fair” in its decisions to levy more or less tax on certain items for certain people?
Posted on 9/24/24 at 12:15 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
First, that’s a matter of opinion and 2nd what possible shred of evidence do you have to believe the federal government will be “fair” in its decisions to levy more or less tax on certain items for certain people?
An income tax is unfair on its face. The concept of taking something away from someone that is rightfully theirs is unfair in every culture on the planet.
I don’t recommend that a different tax be levied on different items but, as we’ve seen on the state level, some items are taxed differently.
Politicians will play with who deserves to be taxed. They do that now with the income tax.
So if I have a choice, knowing that politicians will be involved, I take the consumption tax. Let them tinker with something that is at least fair versus what they do now- tinker with something that’s unfair from the outset
Posted on 9/24/24 at 12:21 pm to SlidellCajun
quote:
An income tax is unfair on its face
Ok. And how is a sales tax (especially one that does not apply universally, as you have suggested) not also unfair on its face.
Posted on 9/24/24 at 12:47 pm to cbree88
quote:
Many economists have suggested that this would be a superior taxation system. People would be taxed only when spending. It could discourage frivolous spending by individuals and encourage them to save.
It’s the definition of a regressive tax which places a higher burden in terms of percentage of income paid in taxation to low wage earners. I’m not aware of a single credible economist who believes in either the so-called “flat tax” or a national sales tax.
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:04 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Ok. And how is a sales tax (especially one that does not apply universally, as you have suggested) not also unfair on its face.
Because it allows for control of consumption and thus, the amount of tax you pay without having to contrive ways to hide income.
It also allows for people to be conscious about their consumption which, as we see in America and elsewhere, can be unhealthy.
Another factor that’s been pointed out by economists and, while not my main concern, is that a consumption tax is probably the most effective way to address the carbon emission concerns that of environmentalists. If people are taxed on what they consume, they will more likely consume less and thus impact the environment less.
Taking money from another person is theft. Calling it a “tax” doesn’t change that. It’s theft whether someone takes it from you by force or it’s taken from you through a government agency under the threat of arrest or penalty if you don’t pay.
This post was edited on 9/24/24 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:07 pm to wiltznucs
quote:
It’s the definition of a regressive tax which places a higher burden in terms of percentage of income paid in taxation to low wage earners. I’m not aware of a single credible economist who believes in either the so-called “flat tax” or a national sales tax.
I think a lot of this is misleading. It’s exactly what the 1% want you to believe so they can keep using the complex tax code to manipulate their income taxes and pay very little in taxes relative to their income.
I think consumption taxes are the fairest taxes, and they reach the most people as another poster pointed out. It would allow us to tax money earned from illegal activity and money laundering because those people eventually have to purchase things from businesses who will charge them sales taxes.
Also, the lower income people could potentially save money and climb out of poverty by avoiding paying taxes. Necessities such as food, water, prescription medications, etc. would be exempt from the tax. You would only pay consumption taxes when you consume goods and services that are above and beyond the necessities of living. In other words, you can save money and avoid taxes by minimizing the amount of unnecessary luxury goods and services that you consume.
Sorry not sorry to the people are spoiled and selfish and refuse to curtail their unnecessary spending on the luxuries of life.
This post was edited on 9/24/24 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:11 pm to cbree88
quote:
Would you be in favor of eliminating the federal income tax & replacing it with sales tax?
No. Why would I want to penalize a middle class family of 2 for having to spend to raise their kids?
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:18 pm to SlidellCajun
quote:
Because it allows for control of consumption and thus, the amount of tax you pay without having to contrive ways to hide income.
You can control your consumption just as well as your income. No one has a gun to your head telling you that you can't make any less than you do.
You haven't answered why a sales tax is fair. And you definitely haven't answer why a sales tax that taxes different items and different people differently is fair.
I'm not even arguing at all in favor of an income tax. I disagree with those strongly. But I disagree with those for the same reasons I disagree with a sales tax. You seem to think they are different, when really they are not.
If the market is only willing to bear X price for a product I sell, how is it not theft that I have to lower the amount I receive for the product so that the government can get their cut while still keeping the price at or below X?
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:19 pm to cbree88
quote:
Also, the lower income people could potentially save money and climb out of poverty by avoiding paying taxes. Necessities such as food, water, prescription medications, etc. would be exempt from the tax. You would only pay consumption taxes when you consume goods and services that are above and beyond the necessities of living.
You must be under 15 years old if you think this won't be corrupt on day 1.
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:20 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
No. Why would I want to penalize a middle class family of 2 for having to spend to raise their kids?
Once again, the necessities of living would be exempt (groceries, OTC medications, prescription medications, etc.).
You would take your whole paycheck home and have way more money in your pockets. You would only pay taxes if you choose to consume luxury items that are above and beyond the necessities of living.
Basically, you have more autonomy and control over how much taxes you have to pay. You only pay if you choose to consume extra, unnecessary goods and services. This sounds like a great way for poor and middle class people to save and improve their families’ finances situation.
I guess one problem would be that most people are not smart enough and don’t exhibit enough self control to take advantage of this.
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:21 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
You must be under 15 years old if you think this won't be corrupt on day 1.
So keeping the very corrupt and incredibly complex and cumbersome current tax code is better?
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:22 pm to cbree88
quote:
Once again, the necessities of living would be exempt (groceries, OTC medications, prescription medications, etc.).
That doesn't sound fair. And congress is deciding what is or isn't a necessity of living? Sounds retarded.
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:27 pm to cbree88
quote:
So keeping the very corrupt and incredibly complex and cumbersome current tax code is better?
Show me your reasoning as to why a sales tax with the potential for subjective carve outs wouldn't become equally as complex and corrupt as our current tax code?
There would be thousands and thousands of carve outs given out/eliminate/amended every congressional session to various industries. It would be a perpetual legal battle both in congress and in the courts as to what is or isn't a necessity.
Not to mention this puts a major stifle on innovation when basically any new product or service is guaranteed to come with a gigantic sales tax. The government gets paid first before I can recoup my costs to develop whatever I'm selling? Why do they deserve that? That sounds like theft to me.
This post was edited on 9/24/24 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 9/24/24 at 1:29 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
You can control your consumption just as well as your income. No one has a gun to your head telling you that you can't make any less than you do.
This is some of the worst logic I’ve seen in the thread so far. Why would someone intentionally make less money so that they can pay a lower percentage of their income in taxes but still have less money overall because their net income is lower. The net income you lose is greater than the tax money you save. Only a retard would do that. That’s not at all the same as choosing to pay fewer taxes by reducing your consumption of luxuries.
quote:
I'm not even arguing at all in favor of an income tax. I disagree with those strongly. But I disagree with those for the same reasons I disagree with a sales tax. You seem to think they are different, when really they are not.
We have to have one of them. You can’t get rid of both, and so we have to find the best solution between the two of them. I think a consumption tax definitely gives the tax payer better control.
This post was edited on 9/24/24 at 1:31 pm
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