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re: Why Business Schools Are Shutting Down Their MBA Programs
Posted on 5/28/19 at 7:11 am to socal77
Posted on 5/28/19 at 7:11 am to socal77
quote:I was working full-time and was married. I had a child mid-way through the curriculum. I attended classes 6pm to 9pm several days a week for 5 years. Next to impossible? No, I did it along with all of my classmates who were in similar situations. My spouse was obviously supportive and made it possible. We both believed the sacrifice was worth it at the time.
Back then, I'd say it was next to impossible for someone to earn an MBA while working full-time and/or trying to raise a family as well.
How do you lower the barrier to entry in order to get more people to pay tuition? You lower the number of credit hours required (which was done after I graduated) shortening the commitment and make the classes easier and less demanding.
I reject your premise. The universities wanted the money and students enjoyed lower requirements. A win-win from both of their perspectives. From mine, not so much. Like I said, I'm fine. Just sad that people look at my MBA and don't realize what I did to get it relative to today's standards.
1
Posted on 5/28/19 at 8:29 am to RoyalWe
I'm surprised nobody has already mentioned it but those who know what MBA program are really for use it for networking. I have a dozen or some friends who've attended MBA programs from USC, Rice, UT, NYU and some graduate some didn't but the ones who got the most out of it were the ones who made a large network of intelligent and ambitious friends with connections all over.
They've all said they've landed jobs by the networking they made at school NOT the education they gained(if they gained any) during the MBA program.
There are some companies they highly value an MBA as a check box for mid to upper level management positions but from what I've heard, that's a secondary to the benefit of networking.
Take it fwiw as this is all second hand from my friends.
They've all said they've landed jobs by the networking they made at school NOT the education they gained(if they gained any) during the MBA program.
There are some companies they highly value an MBA as a check box for mid to upper level management positions but from what I've heard, that's a secondary to the benefit of networking.
Take it fwiw as this is all second hand from my friends.
Posted on 5/28/19 at 8:58 am to TexasTiger34
I went to a top 10 and wouldn't recommend it unless you are doing the on campus option or your employer is subsidizing it and you plan to stay.
It opened many doors from a recruiting standpoint that simply wouldn't have existed if I were just doing the remote option.
The other advice I would give is to be very conscious of what region you want to work in when selecting a program. In other words, if you want to work in LA I think you are better off at USC than you would be at Michigan even though Michigan is a better program.
It opened many doors from a recruiting standpoint that simply wouldn't have existed if I were just doing the remote option.
The other advice I would give is to be very conscious of what region you want to work in when selecting a program. In other words, if you want to work in LA I think you are better off at USC than you would be at Michigan even though Michigan is a better program.
Posted on 5/28/19 at 10:00 am to tide06
IMO, the in-person working professional model is 1) the hardest way to earn the degree and 2) the preferable route for ROI and speedy professional advancement.
#1: Working professional curriculum falls somewhere between FT and Executive in terms of credit requirements / difficulty of course-load. The biggest challenge is time management because students have a full-time job. Additionally, most students have ~5-7 years of work experience which means a lot are married and/or have children (or have them during the program).
Full time is the 'easiest' route to an MBA - in simplest terms, even for the Top 20 programs, a FT MBA is a 2-year party that is a 'last hoorah' and reset before entering the prime time of your career. Many of my colleagues have gone to Top 20 programs and they are echo this.
#2 Simple math...especially for anyone already earning a decent salary before the MBA program. The cost of the MBA is not the big issue ($110-130K is a lot in the short term but manageable long term). The issue is the foregone income of a FT program. It can easily become a $300-400k total cost (once adding in opportunity cost). Additionally, students in working programs gain 2-3 years of work experience versus being a FT student. This can be the difference of a title jump.
#1: Working professional curriculum falls somewhere between FT and Executive in terms of credit requirements / difficulty of course-load. The biggest challenge is time management because students have a full-time job. Additionally, most students have ~5-7 years of work experience which means a lot are married and/or have children (or have them during the program).
Full time is the 'easiest' route to an MBA - in simplest terms, even for the Top 20 programs, a FT MBA is a 2-year party that is a 'last hoorah' and reset before entering the prime time of your career. Many of my colleagues have gone to Top 20 programs and they are echo this.
#2 Simple math...especially for anyone already earning a decent salary before the MBA program. The cost of the MBA is not the big issue ($110-130K is a lot in the short term but manageable long term). The issue is the foregone income of a FT program. It can easily become a $300-400k total cost (once adding in opportunity cost). Additionally, students in working programs gain 2-3 years of work experience versus being a FT student. This can be the difference of a title jump.
This post was edited on 5/28/19 at 11:40 am
Posted on 5/28/19 at 2:09 pm to TexasTiger34
quote:
I'm surprised nobody has already mentioned it but those who know what MBA program are really for use it for networking. I have a dozen or some friends who've attended MBA programs from USC, Rice, UT, NYU and some graduate some didn't but the ones who got the most out of it were the ones who made a large network of intelligent and ambitious friends with connections all over.
They've all said they've landed jobs by the networking they made at school NOT the education they gained(if they gained any) during the MBA program.
There are some companies they highly value an MBA as a check box for mid to upper level management positions but from what I've heard, that's a secondary to the benefit of networking.
Take it fwiw as this is all second hand from my friends.
TexasTiger34, I think yours friends are on target. The networking is the real key to an MBA. And doing it online minimizes the ability to do networking with professors and fellow classmates.
I would have much preferred to do my MBA on campus, but work and family demands would have made that option extremely challenging. I'm glad I earned the online MBA at LSUS and I did make a few connections. But I know full well that I would have been able to connect with many more people if I'd been physically on campus in class with them. There's just no substitute for in-person relationship building.
Posted on 5/28/19 at 3:39 pm to RightHook
quote:
an mba outside the the second tier of programs (top 40ish) is dicey. just another check mark for logistical/production managers and gubmit workers.
That’s pretty much my experience. My employer is paying for my MBA I was accepted into a top 20 (McCombs) and a top 40 school (Mays), but my employer the federal government instead chose a relatively no name school nationally that has ties with the program. I’m making the most of the networking opportunities within the community.
Posted on 5/28/19 at 5:00 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
It has value for BA undergraduates, but in general yes it’s simply a arbitrary requirement to move up the ladder.
That's exactly what is driving the increase in online MBAs. Many large companies require an MBA at a certain point, doesn't matter where from or onsite vs online.
Unless you want to work in High Wall Street / IB type jobs, there is no value in a high end on site MBA degree. And even with those jobs, it's more the networking you get from those degrees than the degree itself.
Posted on 5/28/19 at 7:58 pm to LSUFanHouston
I work with and around MBB consultants and to a (wo)man, they have top 15-20 MBA's (client facing, not back office).
Now, the Big 4 is fine with just any sort of MBA. I have mine from ULL.
The real question I have more than anything is, who has the playbook to the ascension of being a CEO? Back in the oldentimes when the ancient guy who spent 5 years to get an MBA (lol) was middle-aged, having an MBA probably put you on the short-list of succession plans.
Are there good books that guide to how to become a CEO in 2019, aside from get lucky that your mentor is going to rise through the ranks?
Now, the Big 4 is fine with just any sort of MBA. I have mine from ULL.
The real question I have more than anything is, who has the playbook to the ascension of being a CEO? Back in the oldentimes when the ancient guy who spent 5 years to get an MBA (lol) was middle-aged, having an MBA probably put you on the short-list of succession plans.
Are there good books that guide to how to become a CEO in 2019, aside from get lucky that your mentor is going to rise through the ranks?
Posted on 5/28/19 at 10:23 pm to RoyalWe
quote:Totally agree. MBA, very late 90's for me. Mine was two years, full-time (with summer semesters for me), on campus everday, no professional work/job, fully-dedicated. I got approval from the dean, who allowed me to replace some of the classes in my cohort, so I took more strategy, linguistics (this university has a renown Linguistics program), and some technology courses because tech is what I was going back into. It was likely a more difficult path than an off-the-rack MBA, but I was paying for it and had a fairly focused noition of what I wanted to hone and take away, so the dean allowed me to do it.
I've bitched about this before, so here goes round two. My impression from recent MBA graduates (and online graduates) is that their experience was inferior to mine. I earned mine almost 20 years ago. It took 5 years of face-to-face and arse-in-seat classes. We also had to put together a business plan to develop the West State Street area near campus for the eventual developer. I felt the education was worthwhile and meaningful. That opinion was reinforced when I went through LSU's Executive Education program.
My complaint is that in the rush by many universities to cash in on selling a MBA program, they watered down the product. They do not require today what was required 20 years ago. The degree today is not the degree that it was. Online education is not the same as class room education (and I say this as someone who has also been an instructor for both).
Having said that, I've actually leveraged what I learned and was able to be identified as a successful leader before the shite show started. So, while I value the education I received, I also summarily dismiss (or at least discount) newly minted MBAs -- rightly or wrongly.
When I finished I had multiple job offers, with some over 100% above what I was making as an undergrad with two years professional experience. Granted this was the late 90's when the ecomomy was humming, and most if not all of my cohort had offer successes as well. My observation is the same as your own - an MBA is really watered down these days, particularly for those 1 year eMBAs. But if you're just checking a box, I'm sure there are plenty of situations where it would stll give a good/great ROI.
This post was edited on 5/29/19 at 1:03 am
Posted on 5/29/19 at 11:41 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
I have an MBA. It was very informative. It compresses B-information that you can't learn by just working.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 11:57 pm to VYForever
quote:Start a business
Are there good books that guide to how to become a CEO in 2019, aside from get lucky that your mentor is going to rise through the ranks?
Posted on 5/30/19 at 7:36 am to alpinetiger
I’m chuckling at the down votes. Truth hurts sometimes, guys. The market forces made it happen, but no need to get butt hurt at our observation. Any education is good so I applaud that effort.
This post was edited on 5/30/19 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 6/6/19 at 12:20 pm to baldona
Interesting article in WSJ yesterday on full-time MBA programs closing. The comment section at the end of the article is a good read.
Wall Street Journal Article
Wall Street Journal Article
Posted on 6/6/19 at 3:18 pm to socal77
The first comment really hits the nail on the head.
I went to a top 10 because I wanted to jump from the Marine Corps to finance. It would've been absolutely impossible to do it without an MBA.
quote:
As a full-time grad of a top tier business school, I always gave the following advice :
(1): If you want a career reboot and like the potential outcomes for B-school grads, go to one of the very few top tier programs full-time. As many here have and will post, it often results in a multiple of earnings on graduation;
(2): If you want to stay in your community and meet some up and comers and movers/shakers, attend the best local Executive MBA program you can get into or afford;
(3): If you just want to learn the content of what is taught in business school to make you more "promotable" or to be better at your job - go to a local college/university at night.
The reality is no one needs to take Finance with Fama or Marketing with Kotler to get a promotion. I agree with Dean Hamada (referenced by another commenter) that there is little room for players in the MBA space who can offer a 2-3x multiple of salary on graduation.
I went to a top 10 because I wanted to jump from the Marine Corps to finance. It would've been absolutely impossible to do it without an MBA.
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